I married my first wife when she was 18 and I was 20. We went through a lot of hardship. It should not have worked out: we were both poor, from broken homes, in an LDR from different worlds. She was the popular girl, I was a shy and awkward nerd. When we got married, we had only been in one another’s presence for a few weeks total. I went into the marriage not expecting a path or plan, as my parents were toxic which ended with my mother’s suicide, and my mother in law had been married 4 times before she became single for the last time. None of us had healthy marriages to draw from. At our wedding, her relatives even said, “I give it two years, tops.” We were desperately poor, and struggled most of our marriage with health and money issues.
But we made it work for 25 years. We’d still be married, but she passed away ten years ago. We became “foxhole buddies,” us against the world.
This, all marriages are supposed to be this, us vs the world, while I get the argument you don’t know who you really want when you are 20, I’ve also seen cases like yours, as long as both people figure out us vs the world, I think the marriage will last. So when people say 25 and after it makes sense, I’ve also seen cases where people never understand in their life this us vs them mentality, and are never happy and I always wonder the question how much age plays a role in people understand what marriage is supposed to be?
Anyway thanks for your take my man, my condolences, I wish you all the best.
I have neither insight nor retorts to offer, I just wanted to congratulate you on 25 years. Hell, even 5 years with someone who’d dig in with you is worthy of praise in this world. I’m glad you found your foxhole buddy, and I wish you all the best.
I swear some people go out of their way to judge others for the most ridiculous things. Maybe try asking yourself why you are not happy about people finding love without going through half a dozen shitty relationships.
Statistically speaking, 60% of marriages between people aged 20-25 end in divorce. Those who wait have a 25% increased chance of not getting divorced.
So you go from about a 1/2 chance of divorce to about a 1/2 chance of divorce. Got it.
Sounds more like age doesn’t really matter and emotional maturity matters more.
The difference between 35% and 60% isn’t insignificant…
I mean you’re not wrong about emotional maturity but the less years you’ve been alive, the less time you’ve had to emotionally mature
Just on the math rq, 25% almost certainly means 25% of the risk is reduced… therefore 60%->45%
Depends/sometimes… If it’s like you said then 25% of that 60% and you get 60-15=45. If it’s some rando looking at 60% total and 35% total and they go “oh neat one of these numbers is 25 bigger/smaller!” Then maybe not?
For real. This post has big “I have regrets and/or fears that I missed out on my younger life, and the only way to not be afraid is to invalidate other people’s choices” energy. Every life and every combination of experiences produces a unique piece of art. OP, your life is valid and worthwhile - you don’t have to tear other people down for that to be the case.
Oh I have issues with commitment and a constant feeling of ‘Is this the best I can expect?’ but I don’t regret my younger life.
My ‘weird’ sentiment stems more from me looking in from the outside at relationships where 20 year olds decide they want to spend the rest of their lives with each other. I can’t imagine missing out on potentially meeting someone more compatible. Can you really meet the most compatible person for you when you’re 20?
When I was 20 I was a very different person, I’m assuming that’s similar for others.
Other commenters have talked about how they grow with partners but I wonder if it’s truly possible to do that while being so ‘together’ with another person. Some things you have to learn on your own.
Just because you matured late doesn’t mean everyone else does, a lot of ppl are exceptionally emotionally mature by the age of 16 or 17 as well, you should always take a decision based on your maturity level and someone elderlys opinion who also knows you well, like your parents, they probably have a good idea
I honestly don’t know who you’re talking about. I don’t find most adults to even be mature people, especially in relationships. The main thing keeping adult relationships alive is just that they spend most of their time apart from their partner at work.
This is anecdotal but everyone I’ve ever met that made a high school relationship work didn’t make it work through “maturity”. They were just committed. Often, they were extremely immature and naive and were bonded by the hardships of their 20s.
Go ahead and ask people who were together when they were younger and made it work. I’ve never heard any of them say they were mature and knew what they were doing.
Fair point, I think it is just that you should be mature enough to work with you partner together, or atleast one person should be at that time, and if they really love each other, then good
The way I think about it is that the core idea is that you will stick together with your partner through everything and grow together. Most high schoolers don’t go in with that idea, they just have strong enough emotional connections that they stumble into that.
The maturity part of being an adult is knowing that’s what you should do and knowing how to do it without hurting the other person in the process.
It’s like dancing. If someone really wants to dance with you, they’ll be patient as you find your rhythm and you both learn to dance. Feet get stepped on but it’s the same dance. Getting older doesn’t teach you to dance. Being young doesn’t mean you aren’t light on your feet. Maturity in relationships is knowing most of the wrong moves and never dropping your partner.
I can’t imagine missing out on potentially meeting someone more compatible. Can you really meet the most compatible person for you when you’re 20?
Perfect is the enemy of good. If you hold out for “perfect” you will be alone forever.
When I was 20 I was a very different person, I’m assuming that’s similar for others.
Bad assumption. Every human life… every experience is different for everyone. Your lived experiences is not sufficient to gauge ANY other life.
Some things you have to learn on your own.
This is a choice… and not a requirement.
100% I agree with ya. Surprised to see so many that don’t. Interesting conversations going on in this thread though!
You can be happy and find love without marrying someone.
Like i think most people would say its weird to marry someone the day after you meet them for the first time, right? Is that you hating peoples happiness and love? or is that you being a realest that that marriage probably wont last and will just be messy for both people?
Probably 75% of marriages like that don’t go well. OP is right.
There are enough readily available marriage stats that you don’t need to make one up.
I want to normalize the use of statasstics for ass-pulled statistics.
They were close, it appears to be 60%.
Grazie for grabbing that
That doesn’t necessarily have to be a bad thing though. Divorce doesn’t have to be traumatic, and it should be more normalized.
Wow, really? Sure is an expensive and necessarily painful thing to opt into or to normalize. I’d rather it be normalized to not get married in the first place.
I think a divorce is like $80 where I am, but if you have to go to court obvs it’s a lot more. I spent almost nothing on my wedding, granted it was just friends and was an elopement. Marriage has big tax advantages for some, and it’s the only way my spouse was getting health insurance to survive this godforsaken wasteland. It also guarantees that they get a slice of my income if the unforeseeable happens and we split so they can survive.
I think people should not see marriage as the end goal, but be pragmatic about its costs and benefits, which I think you are getting at too
This is just another person who doesn’t want to get married that therefore thinks nobody else should be allowed to.
All good points.
When he says normalize, he’s not saying it is something that people should seek out. In case that was somehow taken that way.
The problem is there is immense social pressure, especially against women, to never have a divorce. It is seen as a failure, whereas sometimes it is simply the result of circumstances beyond our control or is just something one person, or maybe both, need in their lives.
I am happily married. Like many people we have had our ups and downs. Every couple should do everything they can to repair their relationship and make it work. But sometimes it’s just not enough. Sometimes you weren’t supposed to be together, sometimes one person has some issue that they just will never resolve, sometimes you find out things about your partner or things emerged down the line. We are not prescient, things change. So people should feel very comfortable divorcing without all of the social baggage that comes with it. Because divorce is inevitable, it is never going to go away. And it is a viable decision for one to make.
As for marriage, you don’t have to participate and to say you just want it to go away is kind of ridiculous because we both know that is not going to happen. So we deal with reality and accept that divorce is part of the marriage landscape.
It’s not that expensive, I did it for $400 amicably. We had a fun time while married and I don’t regret it. Why not just make it easier for people to do what they want and not punish young people for making decisions.
And yet it’s costed others (every day) thousands to millions of dollars
Yes and no… Yes, divorce shouldn’t be traumatic. But no, people shouldn’t rush into marriage.
Or just be a couple? Save yourselves and everyone else in the families the money and mental energy.
Oh brother
Normalize taking alimony for personal gain
It goes up. Now I think people that get married before 40 are weird.
On serious note… It’s any age. You can tell when a couple is just trying to reproduce an image of “family” because they were told it’s the next thing to do in life. Working in retail id often see families you could tell just went through the motions and that everyone was disconnected from one another. It’s sad.
Imagine the following scenario: you meet someone in college, and when you graduate at 22 you don’t want to split up. They say sure, let’s live together, but we need to get engaged; if it doesn’t work out we can just break it off. After a year you realize your lives are much better together. You decide to get married but not to have kids until you’re 30. If it doesn’t work out you can divorce, but you sign a prenup and at least no kids would be involved.
If you both have clear and compatible career goals, that scenario saves you a lot of dating drama and gives you valuable support. I wouldn’t call someone in that scenario “weird.”
Yeah I’ve noticed at least a lot from my high-school group that dating for about 4 years is a good amount of time, me personally and a lot of close friends seemed to have hit their hardships in a relationship around that 4 year mark. Also moving is a good test about how you do in stress haha
Been married for 10 years now. There’s one thing I’ve found to be the ultimate relationship tester:
Furniture Assembly.
If you can survive assembling a few pieces of IKEA puzzles together it’s probably going to last XD
Our way of surviving furniture assembly is for him to Go Away And Let Me Do It, because I can follow directions and he just tries to slap things together without looking xD
I love my husband! Knowing when to just let the other person get on with shit is a pretty good litmus test, I agree, lol.
Maybe it’s bad luck, but half the time the instructions are physically impossible to follow on certain steps.
I just don’t get this. I’ve never had any issues putting together furniture or dated anyone who had trouble with it. I can’t think of a single ex where furniture assembly was an issue.
I think furniture assembly is more about being able to work together for a common goal and communicate what you need the other person to do and listen to what they need you to do.
For some reason a lot of people struggle to assemble ikea stuff (I honestly don’t know why, I’ve assembled dozens of items and it’s not rocket science). But there’s definitely been moments when I’ve been assembling some shelf and need my wife to assist with a two person step. If the assembly has been frustrating you have a really good test of how well can the two of you communicate through frustration and work together.
So maybe you are great at ikea assembly and don’t have the frustration factor, or you are a wonderful communicator and listener. For a lot of people though it’s that “this is the 12th step, I’m annoyed because I did the 9th step backwards and had to undo some shit, I’ve stripped this fucking screw… I’m gonna slide this piece and you need to guide it past the shelves, past them, you see how it’s hitting the fucking piece of wood, I need it not to do that!!!”
You probably shouldn’t marry everyone you can build a shelf with, but if you can’t effectively communicate when frustrated doing something trivial like building a shelf with someone you should work on that before tying the knot.
^^^^ Exactly what I meant 😅
She leaves me to furniture assembly thankfully.
The ultimate relationship tester is: moving house
Either that or camping setup
Better than teaching stick shift?
If anybody still knows what that is!
My wife and I have put many IKEA pieces together over the years, and she got her license at age 24 after I taught her to drive stick. We’ve been together 24 years, this coming Friday.
What purpose does engagement and marriage serve there? “Must be this financially trapped to continue?”
I think the main point here is people around those ages aren’t fully capable of making those kinds of decisions in the first place.
There’s a reason why most marriages end in divorce after all.
Get married before you have a clue. Get a clue after being married a couple years. Get a divorce because you realize you had no idea what you were doing.
This is 100% a data-driven fact. It can’t apply to everyone, but it’s a really great average.
Those who wait until after 25 have a 25% chance of not getting divorced.
The way you phrased it is not quite what the study says.
They’re not “25% likely of not divorcing” (which would mean there’s a 75% chance of divorce).
They’re “25% less likely of divorcing”
Wife an I met and got married when I was 25 and she was 19. We had some life experience and knew what we wanted. 15 years later, it’s still amazing, we’re still best friends and inseparable. When I met her I got this weird feeling, like I met someone I had somehow known all my life. It felt like I met my wife in a past life, and was immediately like “oh there you are!” When I met her in this one.
Similarly, my wife and I married at ages 23 and 22, respectively, just over twenty years ago. Altogether, we’ll have been by each other’s side for 24 years this Friday (a date I consider more important than our elopement anniversary) and I can’t imagine anyone else by my side on this stupid, cruel journey around the sun.
That’s what I dream of every night
I have a similar story, only we were 35.
I maintain that I was married to her in a past life. From our first date we clicked immediately. It felt like I was back into a groove with someone I’ve known forever. She came over to stay at my place for the weekend after like our 4th date, she never left. We’ve been living together since like 3 weeks after meeting, and we have never regretted it. We have kids and love each other and our life immensely.
I’m in my mid-50s. The generation older than me - my aunts and uncles - generally were in school until grade 8 and were out of the house and working by 16. My mother had her older sister as her teacher.
24 is not a child. You can vote drive, drive, drink, marry sign legal documents etc. And at least for women fertility begins to decline at 32. If you mean you will continue to grow as a person and develop new interests that hopefully never goes away. I went to grad school and was in academia for over a decade after my PhD. I have made two major shifts in my career since then. Old people still feel like they are in their twenties or early thirties mentally, we joke about it all the time. So congratulations, this is it.
Yeah, whatever “Dr Bob”, do you think you’re some kind of doctor or something? Show off…
Yeah. There was a point when I was thinking I’d keep this account professional and share it with my students. Unlike my other social media accounts. lol
Don’t do that. Lol. My partner is a professor herself. You don’t want to share this stuff with your students. Professional social media is overrated
I didn’t in the end. It was mostly because I don’t want undocumented interactions. I have a hard enough time getting them to use office hours.
So, you agree with OP? There is not an argument against it here.
at least for women fertility begins to decline at 32.
That’s a little bit of a yikes there, buddy.
Edit: and additional “yikes” for all of the people that don’t see the problem with assigning a value to women based on how fertile they may or may not be.
Edit 2: tHe QuAnTiTy Of EgGs! Because women only exist to get pregnant.
How can a fact be yikes? It’s only relevant if women want children, but if they do then the earlier the safer it is.
Why is that a yikes? More birth defects, complications, start running low on eggs. All of that is just facts…
They said nothing about the value of a woman being tied to fertility, that came out of mind…
As for the decline in fertility statement, that has been scientifically proven for decades and assumed for centuries. Women are born with a set amount of eggs, they typically go through at least one per ovulation cycle, they start reaching the end in their 30s and risks of birth defects start increasing in their 30s
So biological facts are now cringe?
I believe you are the one who is confused and making unwarranted assumptions here.
The question was about marriage. There are two reasons that I see people get married. For young people it’s about starting a family. However you and I feel about it personally, legal structures that are in place just make it easier when you’re married. The other reason is for older people. Pensions and estate planning is easier for married couples. Again, I have opinions about it but it remains a plain fact.
I got married to share healthcare and other tax advantages and do not plan to have children. I’m under 30 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I envy you. My partner and I are DINKs. There has never been a tax break aimed at our demographic. lol.
In fairness, when we had our first at 34 she was a year off being medically labelled a “geriatric mother”
You are the only one talking about tying women’s worth to anything
At what age are you supposed to know what you want for the rest of your life? You will never have an answer to that in any capacity, and not just in marriage. You evolve as a person, you’ll never have a fixed desire for your whole life. And that’s the great thing about marriage and relationships, they also evolve. And it’s about who you want to try doing that with
You evolve all the time, but you might have some desires that are fixed for your whole life and you might realize it before you’re an adult.
I feel like it might come from the fact most relationships are pretty short before you are 24. Few people hold onto long lasting relationships by that age and few (at the time) short ones develop into anything reliable.
A former classmate of mine met a guy and got married after knowing him almost a year, like right out of highschool. Last I heard of her they went through a messy divorce couple of years later, which we all saw coming and tried telling her about.
That sounds more like an issue with that person not being open/receptive to her peers advice. And I think this is true for many people beyond the age of 24 as well
Wow, well said!
At what age are you supposed to know what you want for the rest of your life?
Maybe around the year that the brain finishes developing, which can vary from person to person but is typically around the mid 20s.
I see/hear about marriages started at 30+ 40+ 50+ all the time that fail. I see people pivot careers and industries in the middle years of their life. People tastes change all the time as they get older. Let’s not pretend that when your brain finishes developing you suddenly have life figured out/know exactly what you want
I generally agree that getting married before 24 is a pretty risky move and you have to have thought it through very carefully, but the argument that “you don’t know what you want for the rest of your life” is not the reason why that is. It relates more to life experience/emotional capability/massive foresight. Marriage is more than just “wanting something for the rest of your life”, it’s a commitment, it’s not just some eternal desire you may/may not have
That might as well be an argument for child marriage.
Uh, no. If you’re just a kid at 24 according to OP, when do you stop being a kid? When OP arbitrarily says so now? Could’ve sworn legal age meant something like “when you’re no longer a kid and can make your own decisions”. I mean I agree, 24 year olds are basically kids and still have a lot of life experience to gain. But they’re not actually children like you’re weirdly implying I’m saying
The age at which you meet has nothing to do with it. Healthy relationships are about evolving together. If you can’t do that or if you do it separately, that’s when it falls apart. Sometimes you’re lucky and you find a compatible person early, sometimes you don’t. That’s all there is to it.
Seems like 24 is an arbitrary number. Some folks consider themselves “ready” for marriage at 18, some at 40, and some never.
I think its very subjective and situational.
I wonder if OP is 24 and just got married.
Maturity plays a much more important role than age. Some people are never fit to marry, some have what it takes by the time they are 16/17. It’s not often that it plays out well for the youngest ones, and since each year brings new experiences and understandings each year moves along the bell curve of “marriage readiness”. So is it more likely that a 24 year old is more ready for marriage than a 18 year old. Yes. Is it guaranteed? No. I know some 50/60 year olds that still aren’t ready for marriage. They just never learned the skills it takes to have a healthy marriage. Giving an age as a hard cutoff is too arbitrary a measure. Age doesn’t guarantee shit.
That’s it, end of thread. Maturity plays such an important factor it’s astonishing it’s not the first thing being discussed instead of an arbitrary number.
24yo people don’t see themselves as children. This post is probably coming from a 40yo person.
As a 27yo, I’m still trying to figure out how to better organize myself. I was one of those kids that never had to take notes in school
And now that’s coming back to bite me, because I’m completely new to note-taking, but am working on large 20yo code bases with tons of tech-debt and spaghetti madness. Along with tons of technical jargon in a completely different field. I just can’t keep all that in my head anymore
The point is, i feel like an adult in certain aspects, and a child in others
Can we stop extending “just a kid” into ever older years? Society already years anybody under 18 like they’re the same as a goddamn fetus. Human life expectancy being what it is, we shouldn’t be treating people… not even like they don’t know anything but like they couldn’t even conceivably know anything for fully a third of it.
I don’t know how it is for you, but when I look back at 24-year-old me, I am not impressed. I guess what I’m saying is that there are a lot of us who definitely don’t have their shit together when they’re 24. They say your prefrontal cortex isn’t fully developed until 25 at the earliest, but I feel like it was closer to 30 for me. Granted, I’m kind of a dummy anyway, so this probably doesn’t apply to everyone.
Just wait. 45 year old me was cringe. And 35 year old me? How did that guy even have friends.
That reads as “I couldn’t make those decisions at that age, so obviously no one else could.”
I say this as someone that had my first child at 23, after talking about it with my girlfriend since the age of 19.
We don’t regret a thing. (Well, apart from not winning the lottery. Yet.)
24-year-old me was an awesome badass and I regret nothing.
What happened man? You used to be cool.
I was a shit person at 24 who knew nothing so everyone must’ve been a shittier person at 24 who knew even less than me, vibes.
I don’t look at other people as if they are or were me, I look at them as if they are their own people who may or may not be living their life differently from me.
Is 18 years a third of your life given todays life span?
Where do you live where the expected life span is just 56? O.o
I think they’re referring to the 24 number op originally stated, that is roughly a third of the life expectancy for males at least.
This. Sorry that was less than clear.
Me 32, i dont have a fucking clue of what i want for the rest of my life. Maybe those couples that married in their early 20s wanted to explore together what they wanted in life. Good for them.
I understand the roots of marriage, but I want a partner who would be ok with parting ways in the future. We live once, why do we have to commit to 1 person for most of it? Things I enjoyed 5 years ago I don’t care for now. Tastes change.
Marriage isn’t for everybody, and that’s okay. As long as you aren’t stringing partners along who are looking to get married when you already know that you aren’t, then your choice doesn’t seem to be hurting anybody.
I’m 35 and married. Sure, tastes change, but my wife and I chose good partners in each other; we won’t hate each other or get irreparably sick of each other, we make a great team, and we understand each other’s limitations and are mature enough to ask for help. We let each other in. There is security and stability in marriage. I’m not great at meeting new people, so not having to go on another first date again is a huge relief for me. Making a good first impression is fucking exhausting. In contrast, I know how my wife is feeling pretty much just by glancing at her, and it’s really fulfilling to be on the same wavelength as my partner like that, especially because we’re also open communicators who can share the honest, fucked up feelings without worrying about judgment. So we’re basically each other’s therapist, but we share housework and meals and money, and we snuggle and kiss and fuck. I can understand that that’s not appealing to everybody, but it’s hard for me to imagine a version of myself who doesn’t want this. But again, it’s not for everybody, and it’s perfectly okay to not want it for yourself.
Now that’s a healthy relationship. I agree marriage isn’t for some, just like having kids isn’t for some. To each their own, perhaps my views will change in the future.
Not going to try to change your mind about this opinion, but I’ll take a stab at shaming you for being so vocal about a thought that is very much “othering”. Maybe turn down the judgement a bit, you don’t know people.
What’s truly insane is people who marry under 20. And if you think it’s possible to know who you are and what you want at that age, you have a very simplistic view of the world. Or you’re brainwashed by those who reared you, ie you have a very simplistic view of the world.
No, teenagers are often gifted with some nugget of wisdom or other about their lives, it’s just that parents and random commenters online never believe it.
I knew I wanted to get married and to whom. I also knew it was a good idea. I only waited to mid-twenties because she wasn’t sure. 30 years farther along, we’re still married and teenaged me is proved right.
Cynical, older, slower me might have screwed it up somehow.
I’m happy that it worked out for you. I think you got lucky. I don’t think most people are mature enough to make such a call at 20yo.
Of course I was lucky. The decisions we make around starting a family can reverberate for centuries. Even if we had enough information (we don’t), I don’t think people are mature enough at any age to make the right call,
You’re weird
24 is just as arbitrary an age as 18, change my mind
someone at 24 has several more years of experience in the adult world. someone at 24 has several more years of neurological development (which isn’t complete until around 25). in other words, at 24 someone has better context for decision-making and better decision-making ability than someone who is 18.
On average sure. But your statement at its face is simply wrong. Older does not mean they make better decisions.
indeed, lots of people make poor decisions regardless of age. but statistically speaking, 24 year olds have resources (experience, development) which increase their capacity to make better decisions.
Yes it’s all about mental age and mindset.
I married at 22 over 20 years ago did not regret a day… I think a happy marriage is just a lot of luck a lot of self reflection and effort. No matter the age it is not a self running maintenance free system
Luck is something I didn’t consider.
I met my wife in high-school, we married at 21/22, it’s going to be our 19th anniversary this year. So yeah, definitely got lucky, and I would discourage my kids from doing the same even though it worked great for us.
Very interesting perspective that you wouldn’t encourage your kids to do the same as you, why’s that?
To be honest if my kids married at 20 it’s not like I’d try to stop it, despite my reservations about it. I’d think it was a potential mistake but that’s coming from me as concern rather than disapproval.
I doubt waiting makes people any luckier in that respect. In the end, it’s a gamble.
100% one of my employees married at 40 and got divorced at 45 life happens no matter the age. If you cannot work on yourself with your spouse and vis a vis you are fucked anyway at whatever age
Two reasons to wait:
- people in their early 20s are more likely to change dramatically later, so definitely more of a gamble at that age
- because it’s a gamble, you should already be well prepared for life on your own before doing it; that gives you a solid fallback in case things don’t work out
And on the flip side you might plan out your life to begin when you’re thirty, wait until youre wise and wealthy, then suddenly die.
If you live somewhere where life expectancy is close enough to 30 to make that eventuality part of your life choices, then go ahead and marry as a teenager. Don’t even wait for 20, marry at 16.
Likewise, if you live in a place where nobody dies before they reach their life expectancy, waiting might be a good idea.
Life expectancy is the age most people live to. Some live less, some live more. You shouldn’t make plans heavily counting on one of those exceptions. Don’t hurry up to do things just in case you’re one of the ones who live less, don’t delay things too long because you might live to 120.
Planning for living 30 years only makes sense in a place where most people don’t live over that.
I think overcomming obstacles growing as people together is an experience and bonding I would have never liked to miss. Going from a broke ass Teenager to now was a wild trip and my wife was there the whole time. She changed and I changed but we never changed apart because we communicated about our inner selves
But that’s where the gamble is. You changed together and it worked out. Others grow apart through no fault of their own and despite their desire to keep things working, they just don’t want the same things anymore. Your and my experience are the lucky ones.
