I’m watching both of these shows in their entirety and I don’t know why they’ve historically gotten so much backlash. One reviewer called TBL “a dumpster fire of a TV show” and others seem to think M6L is downright abusive. However, I can’t find anything particularly bad in either.
Although it’s true that in TBL the contestants are losing an egregious amount of weight each week, it’s likely (actually almost certain) that most of this is water weight and it would have been more dangerous to instead not lose the weight. The intense exercise scenes seem pretty typical for anybody who’s serious about athletics. Finally, the famous “damaged metabolism” study that shut down TBL turned out to be debunked due to “damaged metabolism” being a boring, normal adaptation under high physical activity.
And although there are tons of bare naked shower scenes in M6L, everyone knew that going in and they agreed anyway. Some also complain how the stars don’t receive enough support for things like therapy and other cost centers. I would say that would actually have been a great thing to add, but it would be impractical at scale and have a high chance of bankrupting the production with how much healthcare costs, resulting in a net loss of benefit for those who need the surgery.
So, what’s your viewpoint here?
It makes public spectacle of acceptable targets of bullying. People laugh at them safely at home without facing consequences.
That’s actually weird, because I’m always thinking “wow, look how far they came! awesome work!” which is the opposite mindset.
Look how far they came when they had access to social supports and the high quality food we deny to the poor - it’s trying to shift the narrative from societal issues to personal responsibility… “look how easy it is - you too could lose hundreds of pounds if you got off your lazy ass” without regard to the fact that the personal trainers and dieticians are out of reach for normal people.
Look at billionaires if you want the real proof - Jeff Bezos hasn’t always looked like Vin Diesel, old pictures of Elon Musk are an amazing contrast, ditto for Gates - honestly Zuckerberg seems to be the exception here because martial arts a life long hobby of his… these are all people who already had a shit ton of money but even they struggled before they had a team dedicated to their body.
we deny to the poor
I see this a lot, but unless you’re talking about free range organic stuff, bulk commodity foods like rice and black beans are among the cheapest yet most filling. What’s the reason they’re not more common in these situations?
Believe it or not, they aren’t always available. Seriously. Well, not available and in good state.
If you go to some places, usually “bad” areas in cities and very rural small towns (or just rural without any town at all), you end up tempting relying on single source for food. It might be something as relatively useful as a proper bodega, but it can be a gas station instead. Even if the place does stock those staples, they will sit there until they get sold, or get so far past the “sell by” or “best by” date that the owner finally throws them away. So you can go in looking for that stuff, and then it’s so damn old that it doesn’t cook right.
Even out here in the mountains, where you can usually have a small garden, you run into serious issues obtaining other staples to make a complete food source, much less make food be more than just fuel, which can be soul crushing and lead to disordered eating on its own when people do run into a chance to splurge.
Food deserts are a thing, and they drive malnutrition as well as obesity.
That level of scarcity is way more common than people think for those living under the poverty line. And even that assumes that the individuals can cook. You’ve got the disabled that may not be able to, you’ve got people that don’t how how. Even when that isn’t in play, you can run into shitty apartments/rentals that make it difficult to cook no matter what. Places where a stove can be out of order for months without being fixed or replaced, and likely replaced with something that doesn’t work right.
Beyond that, why the fuck is the assumption that the people have been given any kind of nutrition education to know what they can buy that’s healthy? Why is it assumed that living on beans and rice is a good state of being?
It’s real easy for those of us that have had the privilege of good nutritional education to assume all kinds of things, but that doesn’t make the assumptions correct
Btw, that got ranty at the end, it wasn’t directed at you, it’s the situation that’s the infuriating thing.
One reason is the more you’re forced to work, the less energy, and, more importantly, time you have for preparing healthy meals. Therefore you’re more likely to go with preprocessed, prepackaged meals or straight fast food which will make you fat fast.
I’ve got a relatively cushy job and cook my own, relatively healthy meals but even I find myself going for that store-bought pizza when I have a particularly busy week.
Moreover, unhealthy, preprocessed meals are basically drugs in terms of the dopamine hit, so you’re more likely to go for them if your life sucks and you’re sad about it.
Add to that the lack of education on healthy eating, which I’d bet is easier to come by when you’re at least middle class and bam, you’re a fat poor person.
They’re bland and people want to enjoy life - rice and beans is good enough to support life (but stingy in some nutrients) but people want to enjoy food.
They’re quite tasty actually with a bit of spices and seasonings
I think some of us experience food drastically differently. I would die inside if I worked a sixty hour week and came home to the same food every night - food is an important luxury for me (and I’m not even talking about high end Michelin star food). I think it’s extremely depressing to imagine a life where I put my nose to the grindstone and just exist until it ends. Rice and beans can form a good basis for stretching a good cuisine - but if that’s the only way you can afford to be healthy most people aren’t going to go for it.
That’s very true but “bland” means it’s lacking in flavor, not that it’s repetitive.
Personally I really enjoy good food too, but beans and rice are fine as far as flavor. And there’s plenty of other meals based on basic staples that can add variety.
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Yeah, in Bullyland that’s not gonna be a popular attitude.
I can see where Bullyland might exist among regular people, but not among doctors given that M6L is literally run by Dr. Now’s son and overweight + obesity is approaching the number 1 preventable cause of death in the US. I guess I just have a different perspective than most?
If said doctors participate in something that is oriented to appease the public of bullies, I don’t care about their good intentions – they’re accomplices.
The producers don’t care about reducing the health crisis in the US. They care about viewers and the money they bring.
Just because that is how you enjoy the show doesn’t mean everyone is the same way.
I watch and enjoy m600L for the same reason you do. I want to watch the overwhelming motivation and winning that happens frequently. The fact that some people don’t seem to be able to rise is what makes it not mundane though: you can’t always predict who will knuckle down and kick ass. Lots of people here seem to maybe not have watched more than a trailer of it.
Dr. Now with his hilarious diamond and gold plated stethoscope is definitely milking it though.
Because they are exploitative trash.
I remember when TV channels like TLC used to air educational content (The Learning Channel was actually an appropriate name). It has since morphed into a channel that airs “lets gawk at these people who aren’t like us” content. It’s no longer educational.
So now they are The Leering Channel.
I was SO surprised to find that out about TLC. I have only ever associated them with shows like say yes to the dress, cake boss and toddlers and tiaras.
What typ of shows did they used to air?
You remember Connections, with James Burke?
John Romer/Roemer, whatever, his docu-series on Egypt?
That kind of thing.
Connections was only like 20 years before my time, so not really.
I did however see that they made some form of re boot last year, so I will try to check that out it sounds fun.
haven’t seen the reboot, but i remember the original connections and it was fantastic.
Then let’s hope the re-boot is just as good.
Get this: The History Channel used to show documentaries about history. Everything is turning to shit. Capitalism rocks.
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It’s fat shaming for public amusement. It’s a thoroughly awful concept from top to bottom… it doesn’t offer advice for healthy weightloss or encourage a healthy life style… it’s just making a spectacle of something people struggle with.
It comes from an entirely negative place.
These are television shows that exploit people who have the mental illnesses which result in obesity.
You wouldn’t take a bunch of people with clinical depression and make a show called “smile, ya dipshit” about them.
Biggest loser is centered around the idea that losing weight is the answer to people’s problems when it’s not.
The one where they have these severely ill people living their lives is just so others can watch, leer, and feel quietly superior that “at least I’m not those people”.
They are just exploitative, harmful garbage.
Introducing our newest reality show, “Smile, Ya Dipshit.” It’s the uplifting tale of everyday depressed individuals as they battle their way through life while we prod and cajole them to find that inner happiness within themselves. Watch as these brave contestants attempt to smile against all odds, as our team of experts forces them into stressful situations meant to inspire joy. Will these victims of melancholy be able to overcome their debilitating emotions, or will the crushing weight of their sadness prove too much? Join us every week to witness the struggles and triumphs of those striving to become happier, one forced grin at a time. So sit back and enjoy the rollercoaster ride that is “Smile, Ya Dipshit!”
forced to spill entire history of childhood SA and is depicted to have it resolved after brief pep talk with coach
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How does Judge Judy get lumped in with the exploitative shit like My 600lbs Life? IIRC, she’s an arbitrator and the two “contestants” are having her settle a dispute instead of going to a real court since that would take longer and cost more and still be public knowledge you could get from the courthouse.
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You know what, I completely agree, and it’s the anonymity of the internet that lets us talk about these real feelings.
I personally do not like the emotional toll that most shows take on me. I find most of the things that people find wildly funny to be really mean spirited.
I watched one episode of the office and I was so revolted by the paper thin excuses to set up “situations” for racist, sexist, homophobic and generally cruel gallows humor.
I see shows like Family Guy and American Dad, and while I can give them fair praise for often having very biting commentary, again it feels like they are gratuitous in how awful they aim to be.
I too judge others based on their preferences in these shows. I know people that watch various ones, and they all sit teem with spiteful glee as they watch and discuss them. I find that quite revolting and I also agree with you, it speaks to their character.
Why anybody would want a show where people conspire against each other, or damage their own bodies, or make complete asses of themselves, or watch them get talked down to by a snappy no-nonsense judge is beyond me.
That last paragraph just made me think about It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia. The entertainment is seeing the horrible people done in by their own horribleness.
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I don’t want to see “sympathetic” horrible people in my forms of entertainment. I don’t want to see the world through their lens or sympathize with them. I don’t want to see them get their comeuppance.
I really think those shows are thinly veiled excuses for people to wallow in spite and delight in suffering.
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Sure people would watch that. Especially if some people got help and turned around. Hoarders, intervention, M600L, my strange addiction, love on the spectrum, wife swap to some extent etc etc etc all have similar themes and have huge viewerships. They are not mean spirited, though they are not super intellectual, and show different aspects of the human condition and humanize the people in those situations.
If anything, at least if you watch a show like m600L you can see how under the weight there is a real person with deep trauma, instead of just thinking “Look at this guy who can’t put down the fork”.
There are better things on TV for sure, but had OP said GoT the top comment would be parallel universe you saying something about it being just gore, sex, and revenge porn, or Sopranos and someone saying it’s a wholesale misrepresentation of Italian Americans, or breaking bad being about glorification of drugs and reckless lifestyle. Maybe we should all just read instead.
You seem to have overlooked the exploitative part.
If these were charities, helping people manage health issues with no cameras, that would be great - but that’s not what these are.
Someone is making money off the plight of these people.
It wouldn’t be very engaging if it were “watch healthy normal Jane wash the dishes”, would it.
Additionally, producers put significant effort into fomenting drama. Just dirty tricks like long bus rides in the early hours followed by 3 hours of standing around waiting for something with no breakfast - hoping that some poor contestant will crack and say something snippy for the camera.
You’ve described basically every unscripted TV show, and it is totally fine if you don’t like them. Everyone is getting paid including the participants, and yes manufacturing drama where possible is what makes it better than watching James quietly eat a salad or watch Karen sort through the pictures in her extra-full house.
All that notwithstanding, there is still an audience for this kind of programming and it drives more awareness than basically any charity ever could.
Sure, but the question posed in this thread is why everyone hates them, and that’s the answer - they’re exploitative.
TBL is a show that proves if you have a nutritionist, personal trainer, and heavily restricted diet you can lose a lot of weight really quickly. It’s still somewhat dangerous to do that, and almost guaranteed to not lead to long term success. People almost killing themselves to massive applause and congratulations isn’t actually a good thing.
Even with that supervision, the show encourages unhealthy practices like dehydration to meet a weight goal
True. They essentially lived on water and vitamins while on the show.
So I was fat (really fat, not chubby)and had a very good financial situation before COVID, so I hired a personal trainer, went to the most tech gym, went to the same nutritionist as the bodybuilding team , and the “star” dermatologist (with all her expensive treatments) No joke, in 1 year I was fitness and beautiful. You wouldn’t believe. When Covid hit I got fat again but now I know, nobody is really ugly, you are only poor. If you have money you can be whoever you want in the time frame that you want
I, honestly can’t see how that is in any way the fault of your financial situation.
had a very good financial situation before COVID, so I hired a personal trainer, went to the most tech gym, went to the same nutritionist as the bodybuilding team , and the “star” dermatologist (with all her expensive treatments)
Where do you live where all that is free?
I am just saying that it’s not necessarily a problem with just money.
Not to be mean but there is some blame that could be attributed to the individual too for not doing their part. I kinda* understand that it’s hard to lose weight, but if one has lost it already and goes up again, I would argue that the weight gain is even more of their responsibility and not capitalism or whatever.
*I’m personally pretty thin with a BMI between 18 and 19, so I don’t really get why people just don’t eat less. But I am well aware that it’s not that simple for some.
I have more trouble with eating more, which seems like it should be harder than eating less. Because eating less doesn’t require any effort.
Because eating less doesn’t require any effort.
Eating less takes a lot of effort for me because if I eat until I feel reasonably full, it’s actually too much food, and I gain weight. If I’m maintaining my weight, then I’m constantly hungry. If I’m losing weight, I feel like I’m starving.
I used to be pretty thin, even slightly underweight. Then I went on a medicine for a few months, and it completely ruined my appetite. I’m currently on a medicine for something unrelated that happens to curb my appetite, and it’s the only reason I’m not severely overweight.
Oh no, it is my fault, I’m just saying that with money the effort is WAAAAYYYYY less. Believe me, speaking from experience. I can’t pay all that right now and it’s being a chalenge, even using all the knowledge I have
The correlation between weight and health is a lot murkier than media in general, and these shows in particular, represent. It’s much more reliable to measure blood and vitals, such as cholesterol and blood pressure, to establish wellbeing and risk.
Rapid changes in weight tho, in either direction, are well established for having permanent harmful effects. It also tends to make it more difficult to maintain weight loss, and more likely someone actually increases in weight over time.
These shows make it seem like losing weight at any cost is desirable, and don’t put focus on the actually accurate metrics of wellbeing, while ignoring the negative long term impacts of rapid weight loss. It’s a very warped view of health that focuses on an aesthetic feature.
I strongly recommend giving this podcast a try if you want more analysis: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-biggest-loser/id1535408667?i=1000505824482
Spot on comment. “But, but, but obesity” Yeah correlation is not causation, when will people get off of the better than thou train.
Being healthy is more than just how much people weight and it baffles me that so many comments here are tone deaf about how it is not as easy as CICO and criticize people who live in larger bodies.
Shedding weight fast is a great method for excess skin that requires cosmetic surgery to remove. Slowly losing weight can reduce but not eliminate the requirements for surgery.
Good friend of mine lost almost half his body weight in around 4 years, his arms, legs are all OK but his stomach area needs some work. I can’t imagine the hardship people “competing” on the biggest loser need to go through once the season is over.
That’s true, I was simplifying a little bit because it certainly depends on how you lose it. Crash diets are the worst because they can really mess with your organs, but liposuction or more balanced changes can avoid the worst of that.
Rapid changes in weight tho, in either direction, are well established for having permanent harmful effects. It also tends to make it more difficult to maintain weight loss, and more likely someone actually increases in weight over time.
This is a valid criticism of the Biggest Loser, but My 600 Lb Life generally culminates with bariatric surgery, which has some of the best long term outcomes for maintaining weight loss.
Yes, but also that weightloss from bariatric surgery comes with many unhealthy side effects:
Dumping; calcium, Iron, folate, vitamin A, B1,B12,D malabsortion; malnutrition, ulcers, refractory late dumping; increased risk of postoperative abuse of alcohol; depression; anxiety; increased mortality from suicide (so much for decreased mortality for not being fat anymore); more risk of colorectal cancer; Barret’s oesophagus (premalignant condition for oesophageal adenocarcinoma), etc.
So how come this is healthier for someone? Is it a case or choosing a poison? How come anesthesia is a risk for life saving surgeries for fat people but that risk evaporates when it comes to bariatric procedures? So which is it? “We want you thinner” or “We want you healhy”?
Sources:
Adams TD , Davidson LE, Litwin SE, Kim J, Kolotkin RL, Nanjee MNet al. Weight and metabolic outcomes 12 years after gastric bypass. N Engl J Med2017
Thereaux J , Lesuffleur T, Czernichow S, Basdevant A, Msika S, Nocca Det al. Long-term adverse events after sleeve gastrectomy or gastric bypass: a 7-year nationwide, observational, population-based, cohort study. Lancet Diabetes Endocrinol2019Johansson K , Svensson PA, Soderling J, Peltonen M, Neovius M, Carlsson LMSet al. Long-term risk of anaemia after bariatric surgery: results from the Swedish Obese Subjects study. Lancet Diabetes Endocrinol2021
Saad RK , Ghezzawi M, Habli D, Alami RS, Chakhtoura M. Fracture risk following bariatric surgery: a systematic review and meta-analysis. Osteoporos Int2022
Scarpellini E , Arts J, Karamanolis G, Laurenius A, Siquini W, Suzuki Het al. International consensus on the diagnosis and management of dumping syndrome. Nat Rev Endocrinol2020
Ostlund MP , Backman O, Marsk R, Stockeld D, Lagergren J, Rasmussen Fet al. Increased admission for alcohol dependence after gastric bypass surgery compared with restrictive bariatric surgery. JAMA Surg2013
Kauppila JH , Tao W, Santoni G, von Euler-Chelpin M, Lynge E, Tryggvadóttir Let al. Effects of obesity surgery on overall and disease-specific mortality in a 5-country population-based study. Gastroenterology2019Dumping syndrome is avoidable by not consuming too much sugar. And it is not an issue for people that receive a gastric sleeve.
Vitamin malabsorption is easily addressed with vitamin supplements.
Most bariatric programs restrict patients from consuming alcohol for 6 months and more. The risk comes from transfer addiction, which also is an issue for all overeaters making changes.
You know what else causes many of those side effects? MORBID OBESITY.
This is absolutely healthier. My doctor recommended it for years and I finally went through it. The constant hunger is gone. I’ve give from being winded and in pain after walking a quarter mile to being able to walk several miles pain free.
You know when I first saw my surgeon, he told me the same thing you said at the end: it isn’t about being thin, it’s about being healthy. Heck, he specifically said I’d never be thin.
I tried to make changes for years, lost lots of weight multiple times, only to see it go right back on and then some. Every time it was harder. I needed something that would help keep it off. The best medical data told me surgery was the best bet for that.
And I know what you are thinking: bariatric surgery is cheating, it’s the east way out. NOT ON YOUR LIFE. I had to lose weight before surgery. I had to meet with psychiatrists, cardiologists, pulmonologists, and nutritionists. I had to go on an extreme pre-surgery diet, then have only a liquid diet for 3 weeks, and soft foods for 5 more weeks. I get nothing with more than 5 grams of sugar for 6 months. And not one single cheat day is allowed or even possible. And that is aside from a painful surgery and recovery. It is no shortcut.
It’s also worth noting it is only available to people with a BMI over 40 or over 35 with a significant comorbidity like diabetes. People that need to lose a few pounds cannot get it, it’s only people needing significant weight loss.
So, to be frank, you have no idea what you are talking about. Being fat is unhealthy, but the best medical advice to reduce obesity you think is wrong. Guess people like me should just die?
No, I think we should listen to our doctors, not judgmental people on the internet citing misleading facts. The research shows bariatric surgery has better, healthier results.
More studies: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8012340/
Whoa! Lots of assumptions there, pal. Projection much?
I never said it was cheating or a shortcut, that was all you. I never said people like you should die. You do you and good if it has worked so far, but that does not mean that it is going to work for every single person who gets this suggested by their doctor.
That does not mean that every person getting this surgery comes out of it scot free forever, look at the data. Sorry to burst your bubble.
Calling me judgemental is not te flex you think it is.
Carry on.
You said it comes with side effects as of to say EVERY patient will deal with them. And you act like doctors hide the risk of complications. As an actual patient, absolutely not! My first appointment, I was given a book produced by out program highlighting common issues and how to mitigate/prevent them to the extent possible.
You clearly want to discourage bariatric surgery. I want to encourage people to make the best decision for themselves in conjunction with their medical team.
why the fuck would you watch something like this
Just FYI, please don’t downvote this question into oblivion… it may be obvious to you, but I think it’s asked in good faith.
We’re in NoStupidQuestions and this is a legitimate question someone might be afraid to ask.
It’s vulnerable people that the general people laugh, mock and say “glad that’s not me”.
TLC is the new Jerry Springer only washed through a pseudo documentary style. There is nothing educational or informative about watching morbidly obese people ignore doctors and receive toxic “advice” from amateur fitness trainers.
Watch what you like, but understand that it’s junk food trash TV. I enjoy trash like love is blind, so I’m no better, but at least that’s affluent conventionally attractive people harassing each other. Not gawking at the vulnerable and suffering.
When I was more active in ED spaces, shows like these were really popular. I watched a lot of Supersize v Superskinny but didn’t really bother with the others.
Came from a starved mindset where I so obsessed with food and weight that I only wanted to watch stuff that related directly to food and weight.
There was also discussion in ED spaces I was in about how the stuff that these shows were doing was unhealthy and fucked up but had been deemed entertainment and therefore permissable. But us doing similar stuff was (rightfully) seen as fucked up.
I want to stress that no one in the communities I was in was ever judging the contestants. The only people we were viewing negatively were the producers who were putting people in danger and also like, ourselves.
Erectile Dysfunction?
Eating Disorder
most people don’t like trash tv, most reality tv are trash tv. both of the show you mention are trash tv.
Personally I think the contestants are forced to try way too hard. They get taught that extreme suffering is a necessary consequence of losing weight. Of course they are going to stop trying and rebound once their part in the contract is done. They don’t know how to live a lifestyle that effortlessly maintains their weight.
“Hate”? No.
I just don’t care about the shows at all
Some people are sick of reality shows; others aren’t.
