Like the title says, are there any EVs that just have a Bluetooth radio and that’s it? Like a normal car, not a smartphone on wheels? If not, do you all think that this will actually happen at some point? This is the main reason why I can’t (and will never) buy an EV. I like to have actual buttons everywhere on my car. I think those massive tablets on these cars with all the touch buttons are very dangerous. I like an “entertainment system” that only connects to my phone with either a headphone jack of or Bluetooth. It’s a car, not a PC.
Not that I know of. Let smaller automakers make EVs and we might get something like that.
But with the federal government mandating that all cars must have automatic braking after a certain date in the future I guess we’re never going to get away from tons of sensors and computers in cars.
Automatic braking doesn’t require the level of tech that’s being packed into EVs these days
You could make automatic breaking without a full blown computer, but it’s so much cheaper to put a full-blown computer than it is to do it all in hardware. Everything uses turing complete equipment now, it’s actually less expensive at this point.
There’s absolutely no reason not to put multiple computers in the car I think the real win is not surfacing it to the end user.
“Tech” is a conflated term. The way I read OP is that they don’t want their cars main user interface to be a smartphone app. Doesn’t mean the car can’t be technologically advanced.
Exactly. If my car can connect to the internet then it has too much tech in it.
They also mandate a backup camera, so that means they need to have a screen.
I assumed from your title that you, like myself, are more concerned about the fact that EVs all seem to be “smart”, and cloud connected, and effectively hardware as a service to spy on you, and prevent repairs, and have software lockouts of features.
Like TVs, I think there’s no incentive for the companies with the ability to make dumb devices to actually make them. Adding all this functionality is unfortunately what people expect.
all seem to be “smart”, and cloud connected, and effectively hardware as a service to spy on you, and prevent repairs, and have software lockouts of
This is happening with gas cars too. I was driving an Infiniti rental car and every time I started it, the infotainment system showed a disclaimer about Infiniti collecting and using data. There was a way of opting out of just some of the data collection, but no way of opting out of all of it.
How does it connect to the Internet if you never connect your phone to it? Do they have their own network?
On star is one of those networks. There should be info in the owners manual on which fuse it goes to so you can pull it and disable it.
That’s actually good to know. Thank you
Yes, most cars have had their own data connection for a while now. If I know correctly, it’s a requirement for Europe since you have to put that button to call emergency services in the car, so it has to have a GSM module, so effectively it has to have mobile data.
So, forced data collection. Wow
Well technically GDPR applies, but who knows if any cars are actually compliant.
I know of a story where a judge actually said that car makers are within their rights to collect your data as long as there is no harm done. Loius Rossmann made a video about it
On one side, what the fuck, that’s not how it’s supposed to work. On the other side, at least precedent doesn’t mean much in the EU.
Are they’re any evs built with OpenSource in mind? Like its honestly cool that you can more closely control how they drive because it electronically controlled but tech enshitification makes most the stuff I’ve seen always tainted by it.
Open source is good for distributed projects. But because of economies of scale, remotely economical car manufacturing will always be centralized. That power gradient would make open source very difficult.
I guess I see potential as systems become more digital that they have more potential to be interchangeable. Kind like how computers hardware is.
Tesla is built on top of Ubuntu with their own closed source spin. But yeah, that would be amazing if we had a completely FOSS system on some cars. I’d be willing to pay extra for it. Fuck, man. Shit is getting out of hands.
Wait, they’re closed-sourcing Ubuntu? Doesn’t the GPL say that any fork or derivative of any GPL’d product has to have the GPL? It’s supposed to propagate.
They were until they got in trouble a couple of years back for not contributing shit back. I think they have an “android” approach where they have their own shit running on top of Ubuntu now.
That explains… some
That and safety and I genuinely don’t care for bells and whistles, as they add to the cost unnecessarily. Whenever I needed a new car, I never bought new, I always bought second hand and made sure it’s the “lowest trim” of the model. So much cheaper for the same car. I come from a 3rd world country and am used to cars that just drive with no other purposes. So, why not save my money and also be safe, you know?
Yeah, historically that’s how it worked, fewer features meant less money. The difficult part today is, the cheapest products are being subsidized with these “smart” features. For cars, as well as most other products, they are able to charge less because they can harvest your data, or lock you into their repair shops, or show you ads. We’re now at the point where it costs more to have a bare bones device, and it’s cheaper to sell your soul to the company.
And unfortunately, buying second hand doesn’t get you out of it. Just like how digital purchases can’t be re-sold or traded, “smart” cars can be remotely locked down if they determine it’s been resold.
This twitter post used to be a story of a person who resold a tesla, only to have Tesla remotely downgrade the battery capacity because they determined they made a mistake when servicing a previous owner.
You can use smart tvs as dumb screens though, just don’t connect it to internet. Is there a similar way for Evs?
The problem with smart TVs is they’re just straight up worse than dumb TVs, even when not connected. Old school TVs turn on and start showing you TV in a few seconds. Smart TVs take tens of seconds every time you try to turn them on.
Some tvs require you to connect to the internet to set up I believe. Cars have their own built in connection, (such as OnStar)so you can’t avoid connecting them in the first place since they come connected from the factory.
You should probably mention your jurisdiction ,but I’m in EU and have a Dacia , pretty goood lack of stupid/unnecessary features and the console is mostly optional to use. Physical buttons for important stuff and music/calls. Mine is a LPG/gasoline hybrid but most is similar to the EV models.
Least bad in Mozillas privacy review as well. Plenty of electronics still ofc it is needed in any car today EV or not.
I think that this suggestion is a bit more extreme than what you’re hoping for but the Carice tc2 is an all electric car with all the extras and features of a car from the 1960’s
Holy shit. This is gorgeous. This is something I’d buy for sure. How much are these? They don’t mention prices on their site.
Someday down the line my partner wants to convert an old car into something like this!
Just get a Detroit Electric Model 82.
Man, I love this. It’s so cute.
The entertainment system in most cars are separate from the actual car computer. You can just turn it off, or only use the radio. I think it’s only Tesla where it’s necessary to use the screen in order to operate the car.
EVs however is one place where it makes some sense to have some software connection to the car, if you want to time the charging to the electricity price or set a tine to preheat and such, that’d be difficult to make with physical buttons. I’d prefer just to have an simple app for it, because I really dislike the proprietary software in the cars.
You only need the screen to operate a Tesla on any model without stalks.
I’ve never tried to open the frunk with voice commands, but it probably works.
I want to talk to my car even less than I want to operate a touch screen.
I think we need a car that “weeds out” all the shitty tech that has been integrated and comes “standard” now.
Let’s take my partner’s 2021 Honda Civic for example.
Lane Keep Assist (LKAS) - it’s garbage. The car does not recognize construction zones, and it will actively fight you if you are in those zones, or if you have to make an emergency lane change without signaling, like if a deer, or child runs in front of your car. We turned this feature off.
Collision Mitigation Braking System (CMBS) - This system legit tries to wreck the car. We’ve had it flag and even slam the brakes dozens of times in non-emergency scenarios. It was so bad we took it back to the dealer to have the software updated (which changed nothing) and considered returning the car. The system has to be manually disabled every time we drive the car, we cannot permanently disable it. Slamming your brakes at highway speeds when someone makes a close merge is a real good way to wreck your car and the 6 or so behind you. The risk of causing 12+ accidents to avoid or mitigate 0 is not worthwhile, and it needs to go.
Adaptive Cruise Control - A great way to make idiots fall asleep, and causes left lane lollygagging. I tried using adaptive cruise control for a few long trips, and what I noticed is that there are long lines of cars driving 4 under where they are all using ACC. When the car automatically adjusts it’s speed, you lose feedback on the speed you are actually going, because you never get into that “decision zone” behind a car where you either slow down, or pass the other car. It also makes people feel more confident to let the car drive, so they’ll fuck around on their phones. Get rid of it, you’ll get where you’re going faster and safer if you do.
Auto Dimming Headlights - Turns on by accident all the time, and very hard to turn off. Works ~50% of the time. Could be good, but really sucks right now.
Here are some features that rock, and should stay in.
Keyless entry
Remote start and push button start
Apple / Android phone integration
Brake hold
Backup camera
Thanks for attending my rant.
Oh man, I love adaptive cruise control. I also don’t agree that using it in the left lane is bad. If there’s a line of cars going too slowly, the person in front is the asshole, not the three using ACC behind them. You really shouldn’t pass on the right anyway, would definitely not call doing that driving safer.
Everybody in the line is part of the problem. If you aren’t passing, move right. You should be checking every 30 seconds or so. Am I passing or going to pass someone in the next minute? No? Move right. Only times I’d consider an exception is if there was an on-ramp lane merging down, or an exit ramp coming up, or if you need the left lane for a turn (and you better have your fucking signal on)
If you get passed on the right, and there is no room to your left, you’ve created a dangerous situation and you need to move fucking right ASAP.
That was actually an awesome rant. Enshitification is rampant
I got one as a loaner last year and agree on everything except the backup cameras, those are completely unnecessary too. I hated that car. Was happy to get my 2012 model back.
I wasn’t big on the backup camera at first, but having it in conjunction with a mirror really helps when parking in tight spaces, or backing out of a parking space. I use it probably 95% of the time when backing up.
Also, it doesn’t really hurt anything to have the backup cam if you’ve already got an infotainment system in the car. You’re not losing or compromising anything to have it, and it’s not going to affect your operation of the vehicle if it turns on unintentionally.
I don’t want the infotainment system either. Cars shouldn’t have that much electronic bullshit in them. Every one I’ve seen has been trash. At most it should have a dock for your phone and let that be your infotainment system.
That’s basically what Apple carplay and Android Auto do. However, it’s nice to have independent audio settings (like fader, EQ, and balance) for the car. Big ol’ GPS/map is nice too. Bluetooth controls for multiple devices. Fuel Economy and car management applications, radio… All things that I enjoy in the car that a simple phone dock would not replicate.
It could. It would just require a more robust app. You could use a tablet instead of a phone if you wanted a bigger or dedicated screen.
I manage my audio and GPS from my phone just fine. No integration with the car necessary besides an aux jack. The dash shows the fuel economy next to the speedometer. Everything else (clock, radio, maintenance due, etc) is managed through the menu buttons (physical buttons, not a garbage touchscreen) on the steering wheel.
My MY21 Hyundai Kona feels like a normal car without all those extra features. Lots of tactile buttons, there’s a headphone jack/USB. It’s really just a regular car with an EV engine.
That’s freaking awesome. I’ll check it out. I don’t really need a car now, but just wondering if we will turn into 100% smartphones on wheels
Probably not available where you are but there are lots of Chinese options that are exactly this.
Any examples? I live in China and even the worst shoebox on wheels has a touch screen and built-in always online capabilities.
Some names would be appreciated
I mean, gasoline-powered cars are headed the same way. manufacturers realize they can make more money by forcing us to pay for software.
I know that Edison motors up in Canada makes conversion kits so you can turn your pickup truck or 18 wheeler into a hybrid. I’m sure there are people out there putting electric motors in regular cars, I’ve seen them do it with Porsches and mustangs
eBikes
While an amazing option for city commutes, mine is close to 100km daily. I have no idea if it’s possible to use an e-bike for that, but it would certainly take up even more of my limited free time to do so.
That’s pretty extreme commute, a deeply unsustainable one regardless of the type of power system in your car.
Yup, it is. Unfortunately, I had to endure that for close to a year (I will be assigned somewhere else this summer) and me and my colleagues had to carpool. Public transport would have been the best, but for that route the bus only goes twice a day.
Nevertheless, e-bikes are great if your commute isn’t that long!
I tried an VW ID3 this weekend, the software was low key, it mostly relied on you having Apple Car or it’s android equivalent.
I mean, I think EV needs to be separated from the fancy systems here. I see ICE vehicles with fancy touchscreens with no buttons, they aren’t an EV specific thing.
As for me, I have the Hyundai Kona EV, I love the thing. Yes, it has screens, I think they’re neat, but specifically it has physical buttons below the screens to control the entire car with physical buttons. That was a hard requirement of mine. So, if you want no screens or anything then no, unless you buy the cheapest car out there right now you’re probably getting something “smart”, and those happen to be ICE cars because at this point they’re cheaper. If your actual issue is physical buttons, then sounds like you need to go actually test drive some. The only EV I know of with no buttons is a Tesla, and there are a ton of other EVs out there.
specifically it has physical buttons below the screens to control the entire car with physical buttons. That was a hard requirement of mine.
I’d love to get an EV with physical buttons too. My current car is a 2012 Mazda 3, but I want to get a EV to take advantage of my solar panels.
The Kona looks nice. Do you know if it supports Qi wireless charging, and wireless Android Auto?
It does! Just used it today! There’s a wireless charger just under the main dash in front of the drink trays, and I can confirm Android Auto works perfectly wirelessly. When we got it the sales guy said it’d be coming in a later update, and we were like “uh yeah, sure”, but it honestly worked day one, no updates needed. Feel free to DM me, happy to answer any questions honestly.
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The old Chevy Sparks are basically golf carts with 4 doors and permission to drive in the roads. They are the least “techy” EVs I’ve seen in person as they are really just a battery swap with the minimally-appointed ICE version of the car, which is very sparse on the electronic doodads.
