Wouldn’t leasing or renting be more accurate depending on what’s involved and the circumstances?
It’s a scam that you’re forced to pay homeowner taxes on a home that the bank actually owns.
And, they force you to pay mortgage insurance (against yourself) if for some reason you can’t pay your mortgage. In the event you can’t pay, they make you leave the house AND reap the benefits of the insurance claim. I’m sorry, if the bank wants to bet against you that’s one thing, but forcing you to pay the bill to bet against yourself is massively unfair.
It’s entirely possible that you could be unable to afford the mortgage payment because of the additional costs of the extra insurance they force you to pay, to insure them against you not being able to pay. Think about that.
This is entirely separate from homeowners insurance, which is a whole other scam they force you to pay.
There should be a law to force mortgage lenders to disclose the full price of the loan at the time you take the loan. For example, if a home is $200k, a typical 30-year mortgage for that home will have you paying something like $450k by the time you finish paying it off. This should be shown to the buyer at the time you take the loan.
I just thought it’s more of an issue of language/expression than anything… Methinks the concept of “leasing/renting” for an indefinite amount of time might be quite new in human history, so maybe we just don’t have a better word for it
Case in point… From a pure technical standpoint, I thought a game I purchased on Steam or an audiobook from Amazon is technically “leased indefinitely with no additional fees”, but doesn’t the lack of additional fees make it equivalent to owning something?
And as otherwise pointed out, under capitalist systems you can literally own a home, but would still have to pay taxes to pay for maintenance of publicly shared resources… so at what time should we call it “leased” instead
Well, we do have the words leasing and renting.
The difference between owning games on steam and actually owning a game? When steam shuts down, you suddenly don’t own any games anymore.
When you own a house, you can do whatever you want with it. If you choose to use it without utilities, you can for no extra cost. And paying taxes doesn’t really have anything to do with ownership.if anything taxes are proof of your ownership.
FYI, some domains can genuinely be acquired for an indefinite period, as the delegation has no expiration period. So long as the domain is kept in good standing (eg two working authoritative nameservers) and doesn’t violate the parent domains’ policies, it will persist. Granted, few people go through this rather-old process to get such domains but they do exist. See my earlier comment.
I requested a PTR record once from my ISP. They first didn’t understand what it was, then said they didn’t provide it. I didn’t have a static IP but still.
Thanks for this info! I was unaware of this given how rarely it’s mentioned.
For domains, you actually own them. If you define ownership as being able to trade them compared to leasing something where you are not allowed to sell the item for example.
‘Expensive things’? Houses? Cars? Stocks? Businesses? Art? What are you thinking of here?
In the vein of houses and cars, yeah. I should get in a better habit of elaborating on ambiguous terms in the body, only haven’t as I’ve mixed experience with people skipping over those.
When you take out a loan/mortgage, the bank does not own the property you purchase with those funds. You own the property, and you use it essentially as collateral to secure the loan. (It’s considered a lien.) The bank can take ownership of the property if you violate the terms of the agreement, typically by failing to pay what you owe, but the bank doesn’t own the property.
Mentioning @Diddlydee@feddit.uk here to address you both in your similar corrections rather than duplicate my reply: I stand corrected.
I see that I had misconstrued my personal misgivings with the penalties of failing to pay with a lack of legal ownership.
It still feels off, precarious, to describe it as ownership to me, but I recognize what you’re both saying regarding the legal standing of it all.
It does, sure. It helps to understand that the debt is separate from the property, same as if you borrowed $20 for lunch—it feels a lot different from your friend buying you lunch, but it doesn’t feel like your friend owns your lunch until you repay them, either.
With real estate especially, once the property begins to require your attention and money, you begin to feel that ownership more acutely. The bank has no idea when the gutters need to be cleared or there’s a drainage issue. They’re concerned only with the loan.
I’m still confused. I own my houses and cars. I’m still paying for one of my houses (the one my mum lives in) but it’s legally mine as long as I continue to pay the mortgage.
Own as in mortgages/loans paid off, I take it? That’s the slight distinction I’m thinking of with expensive items that typically can’t be bought outright. It’s not wholly owned until mortgage/loan is paid off, which you kinda nod towards with your last sentence.
But you legally own your house if your name is on the title deeds. The deeds say I am the owner regardless of whether there is a mortgage or not. The mortgage is recorded on the title deeds, but it doesn’t change the fact that I am the owner. I can do whatever I want with it.
In essence, I have a loan against it but in extremis, the bank can force me to sell. I would get anything over the loan amount I sold it for but the bank would have no reason to do this if I continue to pay.
I never understood the concept of owning a home when for most it’s actually owing a mortgage and maybe owning part of a home, depending on how it might sell.
It could be owned out right if you paid it off…
Or inherented lol
Depending on the thing, like an expensive car they are merely leasing: Optics.
“I bought a social media website for $44 billion, so you know I have money and am super smart and cool.”
Why do idiots cosplay property owners when they pay government rent every year?
Why do idiots cosplay capitalist when they got a 401k?
The big one of course is home ownership, despite having to pay the government for the rest of your life.
I don’t know where this conspiracy theory comes from. Property taxes aren’t a rent, but a service fee. Government need money to pay for road, police, hospital, school, culture and everything making your property worth something.
Why doesn’t ownership of company stock doesnt have any such “service” fee?
Asking for a friend
Company pay taxes too.
Thats a legal person with free speech rights so if didn’t it would real clown world
We are talking about the owners who own the property ie shares… Why are you mixing corporate and the shareholders?
How often does a shareholder get in trouble when corporate does a felony?
Bootlickers need to learn their corporate and tax regimes in this here cuntry.
You can’t have it both ways lol
How often does a shareholder get in trouble when corporate does a felony?
Never because they don’t decide how the company operates?
So why would company paying taxes impact if share hodler should pay property tax on his shares?
Just so that I understand the question, are you asking why a shareholder has to pay property tax for the company?
Nobody is disputing the need for taxes or what their purpose is. The issue is that taxing a homestead is effectively a lease, even if not written as such.
It also begs the question, why are you being taxed more than me? We use the same roads, schools and services. Yet assuming you’re a homeowner you’re paying more for the same shit.
why are you being taxed more than me? We use the same roads, schools and services.
Is it a question of not understanding or not accepting?
Indeed, you are not understanding. I do not own or rent a home. So again I ask, why are you paying more taxes than me?
Hold on, Tony…
Where are you going with this?
I’m just trying to point out that it’s stupid to tax some people and not others for “roads, services etc” and then when that select group of people fail to pay, they have their home taken away. Meanwhile the people who are not taxed, still get to use those same things.
i.e. Taxing property is fucking stupid. We should just tax everyone across the board.
But somehow I’m the lunatic when bringing this to light.
Meanwhile the people who are not taxed, still get to use those same things.
Who are these people who are not taxed? And what do you mean “not taxed”?
At least in Germany, the communal tax related to the house (Grundsteuer) is payed indirectly from the tenants via the landlord.
That’s exactly how it is everywhere…
Renting 101
This thread if full of bootlickers.
They don’t understand the philosophical under pinnings what you are saying
Just having a melt down over what they think you are thinking which is clearly wrong
I feel like I’m back on reddit again…
In that case though you own the property, however the government or courts can attach a lien to the property IF you fail to pay taxes as part of your dues to society for things like roads and schools.
Don’t like paying for such things? Go find some rock in the middle of nowhere and make your own way outside of the bounds of an established nation and provide for everything yourself.
And hope that someone stronger than you doesn’t want your rock. Or pay someone to guard your rock from stronger people.
Also, no schools or utilities will be accessible from your rock. Have fun growing food on your rock.
I mean, they might be very strong. So strong in fact that others may wish to come join on their rock. Perhaps for their strength these newcomers could make some payment to them to help defray the costs of protecting their space and providing services…
Needing to pay for gas doesn’t mean you don’t own your car.
The government taking things away under certain circumstances doesn’t mean you don’t own the things.
Having to continue to pay for something that you “own” does not sound like ownership to many people.
Paying taxes is different than paying to own. It is one way that money is collected to pay for common needs like roads, parks, and schools and is more consistent than income or other taxation because we know how much land exists.
I guess a dollar amount could just be expected from every single person regardless of circumstance. Would that be better?
I guess a dollar amount could just be expected from every single person regardless of circumstance. Would that be better?
Yes, that would make far more sense to me than tying it to something arbitrary like land. Failure to pay should not result in homelessness. Especially after a lifetime to paying for said home.
I’m not sure where you are, but typically even if you rent rather than owning you pay the normal taxes, either directy or via your landlord, so they have little to do with owning a property, and more to do with occupying one, as a proxy for the demands you put on communal services. In most places you would also not lose your home for not paying them, you’d get dragged through the courts, possibly jailed for some period, and the tax authority in question would just end up with a lien on the property, entutling them to recompense when you sold or refinanced it.
I’m not discounting the possibility you live sonewhere with different property tax laws, but you’ve been making extremely broad and general statements that don’t match reality in many places.
If you’re behind $1000 in taxes for a $250000 house doesn’t mean the government takes your whole house and you get nothing.
They typically sell it at auction and you get the leftovers.
https://www.michigan.gov/taxes/property/forfeiture-foreclosureIf you’ve lived in the house after a lifetime, you’d either have to be extremely behind in taxes, have not maintained the house, or both, for it to be a complete loss.
If you’re behind $1000 in taxes for a $250000 house doesn’t mean the government takes your whole house and you get nothing.
They typically sell it at auction and you get the leftovers.
And that seems fair to you?
How does one account for maintenance costs with this view? Even barring taxes, you may have to pay for upkeep either in materials or contracting out services to assist in maintenance.
