apparently my city literally literally banned public rail funding, and people online love jerking off about how good biking is, so i figured might as well try. I have come up with:
pros:
- good for mental health / exercise / endorphins
- arguably quaint
- feel like an old timey guy taking his wares to market
- feel european
- can annoy others
- less of a police state around them vs cars
- more flexible parking, routes
- capacity to be peaceful
- nice in summer
cons:
- look like an annoying dork (esp w neon - which also hurts the quaint factor)
- have to wear a helmet (^)
- getting sweaty, potentially “unpresentable” for work
- still have to find safe parking
- still takes a while
- have to find new routes to places
- can’t listen to music or might die
- little meaningful protection against severe injury
- can only carry so many groceries/etc
- sucks in winter
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From a European perspective (I use car/bicycle/train/longboard), a few pointers rather than a pro-con/list
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The more people use a bicycle, even casually, The more it put pressures on local politician to do something
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For short distances (<5km) in town, it’s faster than the car
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Gloves are more important than helmet, on the couple of fall I got, gloves protected my hands, while my head didn’t hit. However, if you’re in a severe accident a helmet can make the difference so I still recommend one.
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Beware of your clothe, if you wear black, at night, without lights, you call for problem, and I can see how even good faith motorists can hit you.
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Paint isn’t infrastructure but at least remind the motorists that you have the right to be there. I can see how the mayor call the infrastructure director and ask them for bike lane without any budget, but it sucks
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Be a bit agressive, and look for eye-contact before passing between car, keep distance from parked car, they can open a door, If you don’t think a car can pass you with a safe distance (small urban streets) stay in the middle of the road, and stop to the side when you can to let the car pass you.
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A backpack, or bike pack helps a lot carrying groceries, not really an excuse
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The problem isn’t that much the winter (unless you live on a really cold place) but the rain, good clothe can help, but still.
Just wanted to comment on this bit.
- Gloves are more important than helmet, on the couple of fall I got, gloves protected my hands, while my head didn’t hit. However, if you’re in a severe accident a helmet can make the difference so I still recommend one.
Gloves will save you from very annoying and painful scratches on your hands, but helmet can save you from becoming vegetable or dead. I don’t think there’s any competition for which is more important, helmet any day.
Still, definitely recommend both but at very least a helmet
Upvote because longboard
What kind of gloves do you use?
In Summer, I use “weight lifting fingerless gloves”, it’s very similar from “cycling fingerless gloves” but half of the price. In winter, I use “light” outdoor gloves.
Wanted to reply to OP. Moving my post.
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Rebuttals to a few of the cons:
- don’t dress like an ‘annoying dork’- unless that’s your vibe, no need to change anything to ride a bike.
- you don’t ‘have’ to wear a helmet. Though there are some less bulky, big, or wherever this cons comes from. Probably best to wear one.
- no need to go fast and work up a sweat, or e-bike as other have mentioned. There may be financial rebates available. Other commuter tips include: bring extra clothes, and wet wipes to clean up once getting to.
- until a matter transporter comes along, it takes time to go anywhere.
- you get to find new routes. Find new shops, new neighborhoods, new parks. Feel like a part of you community. Not locked in a metal box or tube.
- bone conduction headphones, or other non noise canceling headphones
- there are bikes, racks and bags in any combination that can carry all sorts of groceries.
- no bad weather, only bad gear. I’d say heat of summer is worse than winter.
Nope, always wear the helmet. To not wear one is just stupid.
I don’t disagree. I’ve worked on an ambulance, I’ve seen what the results of improper protection does to a person. But also how it affects everyone else involved- from the people scraping you off the street to the family that has to take care of you. The unseen injuries of head trauma. At the end of the day, it’s a personal choice- just think about the possible consequences to yourself and those around you.
Think of it this way- don’t wear a helmet because you ride a bike, wear a helmet because everyone else is in a car… they don’t look for you, they don’t care about you. Only you can care about you. It’s car culture pushing the responsibility of safety onto the cyclists to avoid culpability.
Two fairly interesting videos arguing each point and may help yall convince others to wear a helmet better than calling them stupid.
https://youtu.be/rhzH6mEpIps?si=UGH6OVQVYDOH7oLf
https://youtu.be/1JfbTwrtOWU?si=WF7RlOLg4h_uv58e
Be safe, anything can happen. Wear a helmet, even for the ‘safe’ rides so it becomes second nature.
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100%. When one of the cons is no meaningful protection against injury, a helmet should be a huge pro. It absolutely saves lives.
Guess dutch people are stupid, but at least they have way less death per kilometer while cycling ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Ikr, I live in the Netherlands and not only do i not wear a helmet myself but I’ve seen dutch people ride with no hands, holding an umbrella and a phone, with bikebags full of groceries, in the rain, without a helmet.
That shit is close to a circus act, istg.
For an outsider, it was very funny to see women fully dressed for a night out, riding with an umbrella and speaking on the phone at the same time.
Could be even lower if they wore helmets though. I don’t even wear a helmet myself, but it’s objectively smart to do so.
My friend got something caught in his front wheel and went over the handlebars at 20mph. Could have been turned into a vegetable if he wasn’t wearing a helmet.
And we could save a lot of people if they put on helmets to walk down stairs, and yet I don’t see anyone saying that people are stupid not to wear them.
And your friend, if he drives at 30mph, of course he has to wear a helmet, but the subject is not a sporty practice of cycling, but bike commuting. And helmets does not protect you from a shitty infrastructure and tank-like cars that run you over, so maybe it would be good to stop insulting people and bring some nuance to this debate.
I’m not insulting anybody. I’m simply stating the fact that it’s smart to wear a helmet, because if you hit your head on the ground, you could die. That’s all.
Walking down the stairs is less dangerous than biking and you know it.
A guy in my lab in his early 50s went over and busted his neck and is now a quadriplegic. He WAS wearing a helmet.
I’m not saying don’t, I’m saying if the universe wants you, it’ll get you.
No it’s not. Believing the helmet is the sole saviour is stupid.
The helmet is not the sole saviour. But If I can eliminate or even highly reduce any risk, especially high risk brain injuries just by wearing a helmet, why wouldn’t you?
Seems silly to tempt fate when a helmet is so easy and mitigates a lot of risk.
I also don’t wear a helmet when i walk down the stairs of my appartment. Is that stupid and silly too, or for some reason just fine? I don’t think riding a bicycle, which you learn at three years old, is necessarily a dangerous activity.
Not if you are taking a nice leisurely ride by yourself around rolling hills and the occasional butterfly.
No I’m talking about riding a bike into town with a dozen other riders, pedestrians who dont look, dogs that’ll just wander in front of you, cars passing 1 foot too close over the line… Ya, not exactly how I learned to ride a bike. I’ll wear the helmet in the risky situation.
Makes you wonder why skydivers bother to wear a helmet at all.
Wear a helmet for whatever activity that you’d like one for, just don’t call people stupid and silly if they have different experiences and conclusions.
I don’t believe I did
A helmet is only needed if you intend to spend significant time in traffic. Most of the world doesn’t use one.
The math behind using one is a lot more on the margins than people realize. In order for it to save you, it first has to prevent a head injury, and then prevent one that is in the range of severity that makes it useful. The vast majority of bike injuries won’t fall in that range, they’ll either be related to another part of the body, or in the case of high speed crashes from a car, too severe for a helmet to matter. But helmets do give people a false sense of security. Statistically people ride faster and take more risks with a helmet on. Lastly, again statistically, the visibility gear you put on yourself while riding does more to keep you safe in traffic than a helmet. Lights, reflectors, reflective vest, etc.
All this to say, the religiosity with which people proselytize helmets is misplaced. I still wear one, but I don’t judge people who choose not to.
A helmet is only needed if you intend to spend significant time in traffic.
The worst wreck I’ve ever had on a bike was without a single car in sight. Pinch flat while carrying speed through a steep downhill curve. I split an expensive MIPS helmet in two and still hit hard enough that I had a minor concussion, road rash up one side of my body, and cracked the face of a week old watch just to pour salt in the (metaphorical) wound. I mostly landed on my head and that helmet is the reason I didn’t have drastically more severe head injuries.
Helmets aren’t just for traffic.
I don’t doubt anything you are saying, but it’s worth mentioning that (iirc) 80%+ of severe injury and death on a bicycle is caused by motor vehicles, or complications of motor vehicle involvement. People very rarely have severe injury or death on dedicated bike infrastructure. The primary risk on bicycles is motor vehicles. If you remove motor vehicles, there is still risks, but someone might decide that risk is low enough to forgo a helmet. I don’t feel those people should be called stupid for their choice.
There is considerable evidence that everyone wearing a helmet in a car would save vastly more lives and prevent severe head injury, and yet pretty much no one even considers that as a normal thing to do. The bike helmet thing is therefore just as much a cultural attitude, as it is about safety.
I still use a helmet, and more importantly, visibility gear, on my bicycle in 100% of my rides. I’ve never worn a bike helmet walking or driving in a car, even though my cousin died from a head injury getting hit by a car while walking and my grandma-in-law died of a head injury in a car…
There is also this interesting dutch study, where somehow helmeted cyclists were 25 times more likely to end up in a hospital. Of course the reason for that never comes up as something problematic from the side of our solely safety concerned citizens, they will congratulate you for your new speed record down that hill.
80%+ of severe injury and death on a bicycle is caused by motor vehicles, or complications of motor vehicle involvement.
Which would mean ~1 in 5 have absolutely nothing to do with a motor vehicle. That’s significant.
There is considerable evidence that everyone wearing a helmet in a car would save vastly more lives and prevent severe head injury
Then that should be an easy [citation needed] for you because my searches are coming up blank for actual studies. Lots of assertions of it, but I’m not finding anything in terms of actual data.
It’s very easy, on the other hand, to find comprehensive meta analyses on the efficacy of helmet use.
It’s also worth noting that the introduction makes a point of calling out another common online assertion that you repeated – that helmets make people engage in more risk-taking behavior – as false:
There has already been an extensive peer-reviewed literature review conducted by Esmaeilikia et al.5, which found little to no support for increased risk-taking when cyclists use helmets and if anything, they cycled with more caution.
I don’t feel those people should be called stupid for their choice.
I don’t think they’re stupid. I think they’re bad at risk analysis. That’s a pretty inherent feature of humans. It’s the reason I want to see actual data.
the religiosity with which people proselytize helmets is misplaced.
It feels very much religion like, but also an online phenomenon only. IRL the helmet discussion goes like this for me: “You don’t wear a helmet?” “No.”
The topic coming up is super rare too, while on every picture of a cyclist without a helmet on the internet you got all these comments from helmet fundamentalists going nuts over it.
Personally, I have cracked open a helmet once. On a quiet country lane, with no traffic. Pot holes can catch you any time.
I don’t remember the crash, just the slide.
That is what makes me tell people to wear helmets.
And your friends don’t get annoyed?
I hope you also posted one of those wonderful “today the helmet saved my life” topics on reddit so the community could get together for their daily service.
My cycling club mandates helmets, so not a problem. Only really come up with the hire bikes in cities etc.
Nope, I was to busy being miserable about having a broken collar bone.
Broken collar bone, the classic.
Sorry if i came off rude, i am just so over people claiming that every kind of cycling is dangerous and all that can save you is a helmet.
I mentioned in another comment that there is a dutch study that finds the helmeted rider to be more than 25 times more likely to end up in a hospital. 25 times more likely. Obviously roadies and MTBers. I am absolutely not saying people should stop road or mountain biking, even that is not all that dangerous and practitioners don’t all end up dead or crippled sooner or later.
But if a person is just casually cycling without a helmet, they are doing much more for their safety than those sporty riders with helmets. Somehow this then always gets countered with “i know someone who fell on his head while stationary and is now being spoonfed by his loved ones. No, he didn’t have clips / clipless pedals”. Made up bullshit in 99.9% of cases, i have seen this in almost every helmet topic i have read.
You make some good points.
I still wear one, but I don’t judge people who choose not to.
I don’t wear one and I judge myself for not doing so 🤷
Complicated issue.
no matter what gear you have you dont want to bike on snow
Not true, winter biking really isn’t that bad and bikes are remarkably stable even on ice
What kind of ice are you riding on? Snow, even packed snow it usually ok, but turning/braking on ice is a disaster without studded tires. Source - I’ve crashed on ice several times despite being a very competent rider in all conditions for 3 decades.
That’s my experience as well. I haven’t done it much (not much snow here) but I was always surprised at how easy it was even when all the cars seemed to have a really hard time.
At 06:25 they explain that 35% of the people use special wheels with nails, so that’s different of course (they also use such rails for the winter triathlon (running (with spikes), cycling (with spike wheels), cross country skiing)).
With such wheels it for sure is safer, if someone wants to go cycling in winter that’s definitely the way to go. But if there are 20 cm of fresh snow you’ll still get stuck, you need clean roads like in the video. If the roads are clean (at 09:20 they say that the roads are clean 24h per day, max. 2 cm of snow, absolutely highest they let it go is 4 cm but that’s the exception, they also have an app that shows snow levels on each street in real time) and there’s no elevation and no sharp turns it even works with normal tires, but that’s rarely the case.
- Those are tires, not wheels.
- 35% which uses them means that 65% don’t use them.
- You said “no matter gear you have”, so you can’t use that point.
- With 20cm of fresh snow, even a normal car would be stuck. But if you tell me that you use a special car (a pick-up for example), I will argue that you can use a special bike (such as a fat bike) and roll with it without problem.
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Ty, always trying to improve my English. Comments like that are really helpful because noone corrects those things in real life, ig they assume they’re trivial.
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Refer to my last sentence in the comment you replied to (no elevation, no sharp turns).
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Even with spike tires you’ll struggle greatly as soon as you add elevation. But in one of the cities without elevation you’re correct, yes.
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Of course it’d be stuck, but generally the situation is, at least in my country: It snows, there are for example 20 cm of fresh snow -> roads get cleaned -> there’s no / hardly any snow on the streets anymore. So the situation where you’d have to cycle on snow is when the snow is a bit deeper. If I really can’t wait for the roads to get cleaned (which happens very quickly so usually it’s no problem) I go by foot or use skis, depending on how much snow there is.
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I really want to try though! Not dared to try on a road bike though…
Get spike wheels and stay on clean roads, if there’s too much fresh snow you’ll get stuck. Avoid elevation! And obviously avoid sharp turns
Or use one of these (only downhill) https://images.app.goo.gl/A1NitHgRBS3Qanza7 You can rent them in most ski resorts (at least in Austria)
there are bikes, racks and bags in any combination that can carry all sorts of groceries.
Paper and liquid products are not cooperative with two-wheeled transportation, so there’s still a tangible limit
Where there is no will, there is no way.
If it’s a Costco monthly trip, no. On your carbon road bike, no. Full suspension downhill bike, no. Holding a 2liter bottle of Shasta Cola and three rolls of TP? Rethink some things.
If you know it’s going to be a utility bike, yea. Easily done. If it’s a zippy get about thing, consider a little trailer for the hauling trips- buy used, even the old ones roll fine.
I’ve been going for about a year, with two panniers and a front rack, for weekly groceries for a family of 3. Milk, eggs, toilet paper, no problem. Back when Mission Workshop just split off from Timbuk2 I got their expand-o Marry Poppins backpack (the rambler)which is awesome- though I wouldn’t buy it at the current price (eye watering)…it does fit A LOT, like 12kg bags of dog food and still has room. It can carry the weirdest things.
The worst part is getting the panniers up the flight of stairs to our apartment…which would be the same struggle regardless of transportation.
I have a trailer that I attach to my bike whenever I have to haul a lot of stuff. It’s very convenient. You can add a little wheel at the front to use it by hand with its handle. It carries 40 to 60 kg and is foldable to take less space if needed.
I love my bike trailer. I added an aluminium box to make it water proof and I use it almost weekly for groceries.
I wear the same clothing when I am biking and not biking. The clothing is by no means a requirement.
If you were trying to get to work that could be problematic, especially business attire in a hot place.
I used to bike to work occasionally. It was maybe a 5 minute drive, 15 minute bike ride. I would bring a backpack with a change of clothes and change in the bathroom once I got to the office.
Back in office I remember a few people who did that, they were definitely a bit sweat smelly lmao, I live in a very warm place though, probably much more viable in a more temperate place
Bikes are a scam perpetuated by big tire. Run at full speed for all of your travel.
Pros:
- Green (non industrial footprint)
- No bike to get stolen
- Harkens back to primitive man chasing gazelles
- Fantastic for heart health
- Just as fast as biking if you run as fast as you bike
- No need for safety equipment (raw)
Cons:
- Others will be intimidated by your presence
- May require barge poll to fend off potential suitors
Just as fast as a car if you run as fast as a car.
*hearken back
pros:
- I don’t sit in a cage in the middle of a traffic jam 2+ hours a day
- When I get to work, I’m awake and in a good mood, when I get back home, I’ve left the work stress behind
- I’m actually faster door to door than in a car in rush hour traffic on my 8 mile commute
- It keeps me fit even if I don’t do any other sports
- It’s fun
- I can fix everything myself with a toolbox I bought for 40€
- My bike cost 1000€, 4 years ago, and I think I spent another … 30€ on it in all that time, for lube and tubes
cons:
- It can’t fully replace a car. Around once a week I need public transit for longer routes. Around once a month I have to rent a car, too.
- Bike lanes don’t exist or aren’t usable everywhere. In places without them you need some thick skin to deal with the incoherent rage of strangers who feel like your choice of vehicle threatens their entire lifestyle.
- Biking has become a political statement for some reason
From your con list, the only one that is actually true in my opinion is:
- little meaningful protection against severe injury
(which is mostly a problem due to cars on the road)
All the other ones either simply aren’t true, or are only an issue if you’re starting out and haven’t figured out what’s important yet.
Second this. The inconvenience of winter weather in particular. Dutch people are used to say that there is no bad weather to ride a bike, only inadequate gear.
Try that in Canada though, it’s not going to work out. 15cm of fresh snow with ice underneath and it’s still coming down, while the sidewalks haven’t been cleared yet? Good luck biking to work then…
You would have to use transit for about half the year here
My city plows the bike paths at the same time it plows the emergency routes. We’re in Wisconsin, but a startling number of people still commute by bike all year long.
It’s an issue of political will, because it’s perfectly possible to keep cycling possible even in those conditions, but yea as long as that isn’t there you can’t always.
Can confirm. Especially wet snow/sleet can make bicycling completely impossible. A few centimeters is only a minor annoyance, but 10 cm is a serious problem. Fortunately, it doesn’t last long where I live, since the streets get cleared fairly quickly. During one of those mornings you better take a bus/train/subway instead. It also really depends on how well your town takes care of the streets and what public transport options are available.
Would skiing be an option?
In Austria I’ve already seen people cross country skiing through the city in extreme conditions (but usually streets are cleared quickly so it isn’t needed)
Realistically it’s only those 1-2 days after snowing when things are still being cleared that it’s an issue. I bike commute 52 weeks a year in Minnesota and there were only 3 days this year I regretted biking. 2 snow days and one heavy cold rain. I can always supplement another option on those days.
That’s nice for the Dutch but I’m not riding a bike in 15+ cm of snow and ice while it’s -30c lol
I do and it’s honesty much better than those 33+ c days. When it’s below freezing, I wear thermal high tops, snow pants, down jacket, face mask and ski goggles. Its perfectly comfortable.
It’s true that it’s possible to ride all year, even in places with harsh winters.
It’s going to be decidedly less fun, though.
This was enough to tip the balance in favour of taking transit during the months of snow and slush here in Sweden, but I’m also spoiled for choice here. Now I’ve moved and have less of a ride to work, so I think I’m probably going to shoot for biking all year now.
The sweat thing is important imo. I don’t want to show up to work or school or whatever drenched in sweat. Sometimes it’s too hot outside, or you have to ride against too strong a wind, or the terrain on your route is difficult. Either way you can easily arrive at your destination soaking wet. Unless you have an e-bike, there is no easy or convenient solution for that ç. A very real consideration that most certainly has made me not choose my bike on many occasions.
While we’re on the topic of wet, weather is also an important consideration. Keeping yourself protected against the rain on a bike is not easy.
Somehow I’ve managed to commute to work on a bike year round for 10 years now, and I’m in a customer-facing role.
When it rains I wear rain clothes (jacket, rain pants and over-shoes). I also have full fenders and a chainguard on my bike.
If necessary, I ride in cycling clothes, carry my work clothes and some deodorant in a pannier, and quickly dry off and change in the bathroom when I arrive. It takes 5 minutes.
Electric bicycles are much less tiring to use and go faster / further. Quite a game changer.
With pannier bags and a backpack you can carry quite a lot of groceries.
Music: use bone conduction headphones
are there like gold standard ones I can start looking at?
I use Shokz also.
Shokz ig? Idk if they’re the absolute best but generally up there
I’ve been using Shokz for a decade now. They’ve replaced a couple sets at no cost. I wear mine every day. Even for the occasional swim.
Listening to podcasts definitely gives longer battery life than listening to music. Though even the odd time I’ve drained the battery in a day, I charge it with a battery pack for fifteen minutes and it’s charged again.
Not many products I’d say are worth every cent, but from the quality to the customer service, Shokz are great.
The bone conducting ones make me nauseous so I got a pair of Bose open earbuds. They’re not as good in loud environments but that’s kinda the point. I ride and listen to music with them daily
Pros
- cheap
- fun
- doesn’t pollute
- much lower chance of accidentally killing someone compared to driving
Cons
- might get killed by someone
- get wet if it’s raining
- hills
wow. just wow. what an american hot take. tell me the cons of fresh vegetables please.
Tastes worse than junk food. Need to chew forever to get the number of calories required to survive. No dopamine hit for eating a bite of radish. More expensive than frozen/canned alternatives.
🦅🇺🇲
You have the elitist weekend cyclists on 15-20k bikes and the casual commuter folks all rolled up in one list. Not the same crowd.
Get an ebike. I wear normal clothes. Lycra is for fitting in to fitness biking groups, most don’t wear it.
I just use my ebike as a car alternative so I don’t have to fight for parking at popular spots in the city or pay for $5/gal gas unnecessarily (unless I’m actually going to a remote place, then I use my car). Gets me to my destination in roughly the same amount of time due to traffic lights and bad traffic. I’ve actually beaten friends in Ubers because the bike paths are much more direct, typically.
Recharging costs pennies, and I’m usually down to half a battery 45 miles in as long as I’m going in hybrid mode where I’m still pedaling. Gets you stupidly into shape as a side benefit, since you are always pedaling and you can turn the battery off if you want a 67lb exercise bike that also goes places.
Throw some panniers on and you can carry or tow a decent amount of stuff since the bike is electric.
For rain and stuff in the Netherlands (we have some rain) you can get a rain suit I causing pants you can just wear over your normal clothes to work.
Make sure the rain suit has reflector strips or patches… your lighting and reflectors are key in Beiing seen.
Depending on the commute distance getting an Ebike helps keep your speed up without becoming massively sweaty. You can still exercise but you do it at a steady 25kph.
For groceries you can get cargo bags for on the back of the bike. Depending on the type you get they can store a lot.
Listening to music… put in one earbud only and have the volume low. But in the Netherlands we have mostly separate bike infra (protected bikebanes and such) so this might still be dangerous if there is no good bike infra.
Lastly, you can choose other routes that would normally not work by car. If you find a cut through somewhere, you maybe can avoid the dangerous stroads all together.
I’ll just comment on the con list
- look like an annoying dork (esp w neon - which also hurts the quaint factor)
You don’t have to wear Lycra to bike commute. Comfy shorts, T-shirt and trainers is fine
- have to wear a helmet (^)
Get a decent helmet, it’s way less annoying when the helmet is breathing well and sits on your head properly.
- getting sweaty, potentially “unpresentable” for work
Yeah this is pretty annoying. Best advice I can give is to have your stuff sacked into a bag attached to your bike (handlebar bag, pannier, etc). Backpack prevents the airflow in your back and causes ton of sweating
- still have to find safe parking
No comment on this one, as European I’ve never found myself in a situation where parking a bike is anything but fine
- still takes a while
May take longer but is 267% (I measured) more fun than a car
- have to find new routes to places
This should be a pro
- can’t listen to music or might die
Headphones with transparency mode on are great for cycling
- little meaningful protection against severe injury
I’m pretty sure I’ve seen seen studies suggesting bike commute lowers the chance of injury on average due to the health gains. Or something, not bothering to search for it now. Also I think this might be a bit eurocentric, since the bikelanes are not that great on many other places
- can only carry so many groceries/etc
If you plan on carrying a week worth of groceries for a family of 3, then cargo bike might just be for you. Otherwise, daily shop visits for what’s needed are fine with bicycle bags or basket
- sucks in winter
Attitude issue. I love cycling in winter
Only thing I’d say (as a cyclist) is that “skill issue” is not a great reply for all cases. My city swings from +40 to -40 and it’s not uncommon to see wind chills down below -50. Winter cycling is not always viable, which is why a robust transit network needs to include a variety of options.
Otherwise, this is a good comment.
Yeah it’s a bit poking fun, but you have some extreme temperature swings wherever you live :o
Yeah that’s what allows me to afford to live here, lol
Looks like standard Midwest USA temp ranges to me, we get all the extreme temps + natural disasters like tornadoes, large hail, blizzards, living near major fault lines for eventual mega earthquake, and don’t forget the gun psychos!
I tried biking in a city awhile back, and someone actually tried to hit me with their door.
Any city that thinks its a great idea to share the road on a bike has never personally tried it.
I’ve done it for almost 2 decades and confirm people are assholes.
Thats why cities should build seperated lanes so cars and bikes mingle as little as possible
Yeah, in an ideal bubble, I would like to see trams replace cars for dense sectors that see a lot of traffic.
If we’re talking infrastructure buildouts I’d rather just go the extra step and build a few tram/train lines vs adding a bike lane to every road
I sorta agree and sorta don’t, all streets should be 30km/h or less and shared traffic, everything else should be with bike lanes. Streets meaning a piece of infrastructure that provides access to places lining it, not a piece of infrastructure for longer distance travel.
The Netherlands is good not because there is a bike lane on every street but because all the streets with destinations (private homes, business, schools)are connected by bike lanes as well as roads, often more and more direct bike lanes.
There are a lot of areas where cars bikes and sometimes pedestrians share the same space both in inner cities and in residential neighborhoods, it’s just that they aren’t through roads for cars or at least very very slow ones, while they are often through roads for bikes and peds.
I see where you are coming from there. My comment is mostly concerned with north america and our street/road design and layout is awful. There are many school zones where cars could easily exceed 100km/h if the driver wanted to. Because of these deisgns I think it is best we keep cyclists and pedestrains as seperated from cars until better street design and traffic calming can be massively implemented. The scale of the street redesign is massive and would have to be city wide to be truly effective.
An easier and cheaper start to pitch politically would be proper bike lanes along major corridors. A few years down the line streets along those lanes would improve and the city could slowly redevelop.
I wish I could just snap my fingers and have safe streets but stroads and the attitude of driving is so bad in much of north america we are going to have to fix it in stages. We can’t just convert our stroads overnight unfortunately.
Yeah I’m in Germany so my context is somewhere in between and here the projects that improve my life the most is when cars don’t get to/need to travel on the streets as much, this can either be through modal filters, removing car lanes or just banning cars (with the usual delivery window in the morning and such). And they are starting to get to the kind of streets where you could go 100km/h (in terms of size) that are in practice 50km/h, and are now getting them down to 30 (taking 1 of 2 car lanes and giving it to bikes as well as adding obstacles to indicate slower speeds). So it’s doable and of course it takes time, but with a bit of luck it might be faster than some Americans imagine it could be.
So of course bike lanes along mayor roads (corridors) make sense, and it can be a good starting point to get a skeleton network in place, which then can Kickstart intersection redesigns and traffic calming, wherever it’s reasonable around it. To me the best bike paths don’t go along roads though, they are the “recreational” paths that still connect things. Cutting through a patch of Forrest or a park, going along the waterfront, parallel to a tramway or rail corridor or just along/through the fields. These are probably also politically cheaper than some other measures, but you run the risk of building a thing that just connects nothing because there is no real infrastructure on either end.
I feel like Americans think they are 60+ years behind when they are probably only 30-40, if the attitude turns somewhat sharply, either just in your local area or more generally, maybe just 15-25.
A lot of this stuff is monetarily very cheap, depending on how desperately you wanted change the actual infrastructure you’d need, would boil down to planters, bollards, cones, maybe hay bails or large stones/concrete pieces. The problem with that stuff is that it’s only possible with the right opportunity politically, otherwise your traffic calming might get bulldozed by police or something.
I agree, everyone thinks cars, bikes, buses, and people all should follow the same line along the same corridor. Having bike lanes seperated more can be very benefecial and helps seperation without need for physical barriers. For example a road could run down the center of a commercial area, with a dedicated BRT lane, and bike/ped pnaes closer to the businesses or even a seperate enterance/laneway behind the businesses dedicated to people.
But most of North America thinks a painted bicycle gutter along a busy road, crossing many car intersections and entrances is the best we can build.
There are plenty of protected lanes in my city, but they just hide bicycles behind parked cars, making it less safe at every intersection.
The only way I can think that might work better would be to convert a 3-lane road (with suicide/turn lane in center), into a 2-lane road. The center lane gets converted into a two-way bicycle road - raised up like a sidewalk with curved curb. No left turns allowed for cars, only right turns. This way bicycles are visible and protected.
A better option is to make seperate intersections for cars and bikes. Bike lanes do not exclussively have to run right next to the car lanes.
Pro:
- Look this shitload of money you don’t have to pay for insurance, parking and gaz
Con:
- Look this shitload of time you’ve spent to “fix just this another thing”
