And when the Next Gen came out; there was tons of hate because it ‘wasn’t Star Trek’ and the cast probably was in fear from the fans. Again when the series with Bakula came out, it too was panned by the fans because it ‘wasn’t Star Trek.’ Star Trek is different for everyone.”
So, to all the outspoken trolls and haters out there, a huge Fuck You for sabotaging the entire franchise.
Funny how we can influence a TV show into being canceled because it deals with “icky wokeness” but can’t do anything about the actual icky child fucker.
What’s crazy is I can’t even pinpoint what they even mean by the wokeness? It’s really not overbearing, nor anymore than SNW or other TV shows. Maybe I’m just in a West Coast echo chamber
The ones who aren’t being dishonest pieces of shit feeding into divisivism are usually complaining about the lack of quality of the writing and/or the overt nature of ‘leftist’ messaging. Meaning anything remotely progressive like gay people existing or touchy-feely things coming from guys in a manner where those things are not directly relevant to the plot or don’t actually change anything end up feeling forced, and thusly feel like they’re sprinkled in just to “be progressive”.
Often times there is some credibility to the complaints of the quality of writing, it’s just the ‘woke’ thing that triggered them to think about why the thing on screen is happening. Instead of noticing that it’s a general ham-fisted nature to the writing (which Trek basically always has in quite a few episodes of all series), they stupidly blame ‘woke’.
That is the power of the brainwashing coming from the dishonest propagandists like Ben Shapiro and their ilk: Legitimate shortcomings become things caused by “the other”, instead of basic variability of quality.
IMO, the bigger problem with Trek is Hollywood dumbasses like Kurtzman like pushing messaging more than writing good stories to challenge the alternate POV, which plays right into the shitty propagandists’ hands.
There are plenty of old episodes that would embarass modern Trek with being progressive since they didn’t make it an overt declaration (tell the audience), but showed why the bigoted view was bad. Whereas new Trek loves to just… declare the progressive view as good, and then go on to Main Character the problem away: Poor writing even when you agree with the message.
Sure, there are also quite a few hamfisted episodes of old Trek, but I’d much rather take 24 episode seasons smattered with ham than 10 episodes with an overarching story that loves to simply declare itself superior. It’s so much easier to ignore the poorly written episodes in old Trek when there is so much to take in, especially when there are some gems to find.
IMO, the overproduction is also hurting a lot of newer IPs even beyond being a huge cost. It sets the expectations higher. It’s so much easier to gloss over a 6/10 in writing which is inevitable in a long running series no matter the message, when the visuals and the rest aren’t a 10/10 in every scene. If the episodes weren’t insanely expensive, long productions, they’d be able to put out a lot more episodes to drown out the bad ones. Instead, they give us 10, in a season that’s almost always a bit rocky to begin with in every series.
I think setting expectation is one reason why Lower Decks gets so much love. It’s “just a cartoon”, so when the writing nails a mature topic, it feels like a proper treat.
The reason people like lower deck so much is because it was obviously written by an actual Star Trek fan rather than someone trying to write generic science fiction and then slap a Star Trek aesthetic on top. Which was what discovery was like in the early days.
I disagree that cartoons set lower expectations. I expected a lot from Lower Decks and that expectation was well satisfied. One thing LDS does benefit from is the 22 minute runtime. 45 minute episodes are too long.
Cartoons don’t set lower expectations. They naturally come with a different set of expectations that happens to have more leeway with writing. Especially in comedies vs overproduced “serious” shows.
The fact that this is happening now and not at the end of season 2 implies studio shenaniganary and not listening to some dumb chuds.
Why would they sabotage viewership for season 2 instead of canceling it outright? Or at a minimum just dump the rest of it now?
My gut says it’s virtue signaling by management to the Ellison who’s gonna run the place in the not too distant future. Canceling the “woke” trek sounds like something sufficiently sycophantic for a Hollywood exec.
The worst part is now the chuds are taking a victory lap.
Season 2 completed production a couple of weeks ago. SNW has completed production on its final 2 seasons. This is the first time there has been a clear deck with no Trek in development or production since 2005.
It isn’t necessarily virtue signalling. A new ownership team tends to like having a fresh start on key properties. It comes at the right time, with Kurtzman’s contract up at the end of the year. Financially there’ll be a bit of brinkmanship. If the studio greenlights another Kurtzman Trek show now, they’ll be handcuffed to him for the next few years and his deal will go up in value. Hold off, and they can keep the price down or go for someone else.
So if it had been popular would it have continued? Serious question, because it sounds like they weren’t going to continue SFA after season 2 in the first place.
If it were a phenomenon then maybe it would have been continued, but Trek is expensive, and they don’t have Netflix paying for it these days.
I never got the impression it was a show that would stick around. Obviously it would be limited to 4 seasons anyway without replacing most of the cast, but I think it pretty much wrapped everything up in season 1.
Just a guess, but maybe because S02 finished production and now would be the time to begin production on S03 including signing contracts with the cast and crew. If they didn’t announce it, then all of those people out of work would sure as hell shout it from the rooftops.
Since the news broke that Academy was cancelled, I’ve seen a number of comments implying that people who posted negatively about it on Lemmy are in some way responsible for its cancellation. That’s a ridiculous notion. Nobody with the power to make that decision gives a single shit about what goes on here, nor are they even aware of our existence. I get that you’re frustrated, but your ire is misdirected.
Ha! Blaming people on Reddit is barely believable. Maybe an exec is a big Reddit fan, or it gets back to the board because the social media pr team keeps tabs on Reddit to make sure AMAs aren’t being given in problematic fora.
I was taking your comment seriously until the performative bigotry at the end. At that point I thought “Here is a person who is perfectly capable of thoughtful conversation, but is trying to look like an ass.”
He would be far more correct in the general sense if it were only bigots and idiots complaining that were never going to be fans of a more intellectual show anyways.
New Trek has had lots of criticism from actual, existing Trek fans that want to see the IP flourish into another 100+ episode series. Of course the usual bigots and propagandists also hated on it, but they were always going to! To thusly pretend there are zero honest fans who didn’t like Discovery or Picard, etc, is to completely ignore valid critique.
Star Trek might be different for everyone, but there are many core throughlines and principles that were heavily changed for New Trek. That doesn’t inherently make New Trek bad by itself, but it also means the old fans aren’t just whining to whine.
Maybe they actually have some good points when they’re comparing things that are getting dropped one after the other, not even approaching episode counts that the original hit with three seasons, to the rest of the older series which all have significantly more than that.
Yes, they all had silly episodes, so why did these older things with plenty of sillyness garner so many fans? It’s foolish to pretend it’s all bigots and idiots simply saying, “it’s different!”.
Yeah this is a stupid ass take. The show isn’t enough of what people liked about startrek. That’s not the audiences fault, it’s the showrunner’s fault, who famously didn’t watch startrek, didn’t care about the IP, didn’t care what people liked about it and just wanted to use the IP to promote ideology and worldview. Aka propaganda. Atleast the OS to Enterprise era gave us enough of what we liked that we could sit through what we didn’t. Just because trek was progressive doesn’t mean all the fanbase was on board with all of it. The progressiveness wasn’t the only thing of value that it was. This latest installment failed to strike that balanced at all because it intentionally and arrogantly and sadistically refused to even attempt to.
William Shatner just said it best again:
So, to all the outspoken trolls and haters out there, a huge Fuck You for sabotaging the entire franchise.
Surely it was the writers who sabotaged the show by producing this instead of literally anything else.
I don’t dislike it because it’s woke. I dislike it because it’s a really bad show.
The franchise died because of poor ratings, not poor reviews.
Do you think The Bachelor stayed on air for years because of critical acclaim?
Funny how we can influence a TV show into being canceled because it deals with “icky wokeness” but can’t do anything about the actual icky child fucker.
Well, he wasn’t invited back for Home Alone 3.
What’s crazy is I can’t even pinpoint what they even mean by the wokeness? It’s really not overbearing, nor anymore than SNW or other TV shows. Maybe I’m just in a West Coast echo chamber
If anything, Discovery was way more “woke”.
The ones who aren’t being dishonest pieces of shit feeding into divisivism are usually complaining about the lack of quality of the writing and/or the overt nature of ‘leftist’ messaging. Meaning anything remotely progressive like gay people existing or touchy-feely things coming from guys in a manner where those things are not directly relevant to the plot or don’t actually change anything end up feeling forced, and thusly feel like they’re sprinkled in just to “be progressive”.
Often times there is some credibility to the complaints of the quality of writing, it’s just the ‘woke’ thing that triggered them to think about why the thing on screen is happening. Instead of noticing that it’s a general ham-fisted nature to the writing (which Trek basically always has in quite a few episodes of all series), they stupidly blame ‘woke’.
That is the power of the brainwashing coming from the dishonest propagandists like Ben Shapiro and their ilk: Legitimate shortcomings become things caused by “the other”, instead of basic variability of quality.
IMO, the bigger problem with Trek is Hollywood dumbasses like Kurtzman like pushing messaging more than writing good stories to challenge the alternate POV, which plays right into the shitty propagandists’ hands.
There are plenty of old episodes that would embarass modern Trek with being progressive since they didn’t make it an overt declaration (tell the audience), but showed why the bigoted view was bad. Whereas new Trek loves to just… declare the progressive view as good, and then go on to Main Character the problem away: Poor writing even when you agree with the message.
Sure, there are also quite a few hamfisted episodes of old Trek, but I’d much rather take 24 episode seasons smattered with ham than 10 episodes with an overarching story that loves to simply declare itself superior. It’s so much easier to ignore the poorly written episodes in old Trek when there is so much to take in, especially when there are some gems to find.
IMO, the overproduction is also hurting a lot of newer IPs even beyond being a huge cost. It sets the expectations higher. It’s so much easier to gloss over a 6/10 in writing which is inevitable in a long running series no matter the message, when the visuals and the rest aren’t a 10/10 in every scene. If the episodes weren’t insanely expensive, long productions, they’d be able to put out a lot more episodes to drown out the bad ones. Instead, they give us 10, in a season that’s almost always a bit rocky to begin with in every series.
I think setting expectation is one reason why Lower Decks gets so much love. It’s “just a cartoon”, so when the writing nails a mature topic, it feels like a proper treat.
The reason people like lower deck so much is because it was obviously written by an actual Star Trek fan rather than someone trying to write generic science fiction and then slap a Star Trek aesthetic on top. Which was what discovery was like in the early days.
Fully agreed there! They also do mature topics better than many humor focused cartoons. At least more regularly.
I disagree that cartoons set lower expectations. I expected a lot from Lower Decks and that expectation was well satisfied. One thing LDS does benefit from is the 22 minute runtime. 45 minute episodes are too long.
Cartoons don’t set lower expectations. They naturally come with a different set of expectations that happens to have more leeway with writing. Especially in comedies vs overproduced “serious” shows.
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I mean, it ain’t exactly The Honeymooners or Dukes of Hazzard, is it? That’s the standard that we’re measuring “woke” against these days!
The fact that this is happening now and not at the end of season 2 implies studio shenaniganary and not listening to some dumb chuds.
Why would they sabotage viewership for season 2 instead of canceling it outright? Or at a minimum just dump the rest of it now?
My gut says it’s virtue signaling by management to the Ellison who’s gonna run the place in the not too distant future. Canceling the “woke” trek sounds like something sufficiently sycophantic for a Hollywood exec.
The worst part is now the chuds are taking a victory lap.
More like “vice signaling.”
Season 2 completed production a couple of weeks ago. SNW has completed production on its final 2 seasons. This is the first time there has been a clear deck with no Trek in development or production since 2005.
It isn’t necessarily virtue signalling. A new ownership team tends to like having a fresh start on key properties. It comes at the right time, with Kurtzman’s contract up at the end of the year. Financially there’ll be a bit of brinkmanship. If the studio greenlights another Kurtzman Trek show now, they’ll be handcuffed to him for the next few years and his deal will go up in value. Hold off, and they can keep the price down or go for someone else.
So if it had been popular would it have continued? Serious question, because it sounds like they weren’t going to continue SFA after season 2 in the first place.
There was a report posted elsewhere claiming that the viewership has been greater than expected but they still canceled it.
If it were a phenomenon then maybe it would have been continued, but Trek is expensive, and they don’t have Netflix paying for it these days.
I never got the impression it was a show that would stick around. Obviously it would be limited to 4 seasons anyway without replacing most of the cast, but I think it pretty much wrapped everything up in season 1.
They can’t dump season 2 right now because it only finished filming a month ago and there’s a lot to be done after that.
Okay. Still doesn’t explain why they’d announce this now.
Just a guess, but maybe because S02 finished production and now would be the time to begin production on S03 including signing contracts with the cast and crew. If they didn’t announce it, then all of those people out of work would sure as hell shout it from the rooftops.
This makes sense if they want to break down the sets.
Its been standard practice to blame online communities for bad numbers or office politics for most of the last decade.
Since the news broke that Academy was cancelled, I’ve seen a number of comments implying that people who posted negatively about it on Lemmy are in some way responsible for its cancellation. That’s a ridiculous notion. Nobody with the power to make that decision gives a single shit about what goes on here, nor are they even aware of our existence. I get that you’re frustrated, but your ire is misdirected.
Ha! Blaming people on Reddit is barely believable. Maybe an exec is a big Reddit fan, or it gets back to the board because the social media pr team keeps tabs on Reddit to make sure AMAs aren’t being given in problematic fora.
But Lemmy? Delusion.
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I was taking your comment seriously until the performative bigotry at the end. At that point I thought “Here is a person who is perfectly capable of thoughtful conversation, but is trying to look like an ass.”
I hope those individuals whom latch onto what Shatner says, change their attitude.
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He would be far more correct in the general sense if it were only bigots and idiots complaining that were never going to be fans of a more intellectual show anyways.
New Trek has had lots of criticism from actual, existing Trek fans that want to see the IP flourish into another 100+ episode series. Of course the usual bigots and propagandists also hated on it, but they were always going to! To thusly pretend there are zero honest fans who didn’t like Discovery or Picard, etc, is to completely ignore valid critique.
Star Trek might be different for everyone, but there are many core throughlines and principles that were heavily changed for New Trek. That doesn’t inherently make New Trek bad by itself, but it also means the old fans aren’t just whining to whine.
Maybe they actually have some good points when they’re comparing things that are getting dropped one after the other, not even approaching episode counts that the original hit with three seasons, to the rest of the older series which all have significantly more than that.
Yes, they all had silly episodes, so why did these older things with plenty of sillyness garner so many fans? It’s foolish to pretend it’s all bigots and idiots simply saying, “it’s different!”.
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Yeah this is a stupid ass take. The show isn’t enough of what people liked about startrek. That’s not the audiences fault, it’s the showrunner’s fault, who famously didn’t watch startrek, didn’t care about the IP, didn’t care what people liked about it and just wanted to use the IP to promote ideology and worldview. Aka propaganda. Atleast the OS to Enterprise era gave us enough of what we liked that we could sit through what we didn’t. Just because trek was progressive doesn’t mean all the fanbase was on board with all of it. The progressiveness wasn’t the only thing of value that it was. This latest installment failed to strike that balanced at all because it intentionally and arrogantly and sadistically refused to even attempt to.