yeah, I’ve done that

i know it’s not the important part of your comment, but I must point out that indies will be fine because indies do not have publishing deals. If your studio is beholden to a publisher, then you are by definition not independent.

its only the big publishers that are going to crash, so nothing of value will be lost.

Since you’re being reasonable again, I’ll answer.

Perhaps “demanded” was the wrong word to use. It got the wrong point across. You did not explicitly ask for it, but rather strongly implied that you wanted the other guy’s argument to be a certain way. (your comment I am referring to is quoted below). Ultimately, you were right, as the plot has thickened over the past 2 hours. In another comment the other guy agreed with the explanation I provided, and used that to claim that proc gen and gen ai are effectively the same (a claim that I disputed in another another comment). So on this point, you win. It was I who misunderstood the other guy’s argument.

I feel like it does. theunknownmuncher thinks it’s somehow inconsistent to be against generative AI while being ok with procedural generation, which implies that they think they’re equivalent in some way. As if the reason people don’t like generative AI is because it makes bad games.

Agreed.

What am I projecting???

This is what using ChatGPT does yo your brain, it destroys your reading comprehension

Why is it that now that I am asking you to explain things, you won’t?

You’re projecting, and being an asshole

Point not proven.

There are many reasons why people in general actively dislike generative ai. Many of those reasons have to do with the creation of the ai (including environmental damage and harm to artists, and more besides), and are applicable regardless of the quality of the end product.

Furthermore, using generative ai does tend to make the end product worse, regardless of what that product is. This does not mean that it is impossible to make good shit with ai, nor does it mean that ai only makes good shit. There’s nuance to the issue that is often ignored.

Furthermore again, there is bandwagonning happening in the hate of ai. However, just begause bandwagonning is a logical fallacy, does not automatically make the arguments wrong (see the fallacy fallacy).

Furthermore the third, developers absolutely can be held at fault for using generative ai. Valve demands ai use be disclosed, they didn’t comply, ipso facto, devs are at fault. However, not all fault is equal. The example being discussed in the original post is much less egregious than most in my opinion. It’s not like they ai generated the entire game asset by asset.

I had another point but already forgot what it was so I’ll leave it at that for now.

I will concede that we have lived different experiences.

You’re projecting, and being an asshole. Pause a minute and collect yourself.

you demanded an equivalence. I gave you one. If you don’t like it then that’s a you problem.

both are used to produce more content with less effort. There’s your equivalence.

What would actually add value to the conversation is discussing why a particular criticism of one may or may not apply to the other.

I actually disagree with the original premise, and explained why in another comment.

You must be young. proc gen used to get tons of hate in the 2010 and such era, gamers complained about devs being lazy and not being willing to actually make levels/worlds/dungeons/whatever. This complaint was of course inconsistently applied.

These days people mostly just got used to it as normal. In 10 or 20 years, I’d wager the same will be true of gen ai.

While your statement is objectively true, it does not pertain to the comment you replied to. Read it again, they were making a comparison. They did not claim that the two things were identical.

yeah, i know. Point is that Nintendo can do whatever they want with the flimsyest excuse.

Nintendo was able to sue palworld using a patent that didn’t exist before palworlds release. It’s not right, but they can do whatever they want regardless of what the law says.

before the Internet killed my attention span, I used to read a lot of science fiction and fantasy novels by a variety of authors. Since then, I’ve watched a lot of anime and read a lot of amateur writing. I don’t have specific sources to cite, but the trope is common enough and recurring enough that I stand by my claim of “generally accepted”.

close enough

it’s a generally accepted assumption in many post-Tolkien fantasy works.

different people like different things, sounds like your friends like rougish games.

I enjoyed bastion, it was probably my favorite game of its year. I don’t care enough about hades to even give it the time of day, no matter how hot they made zagreus. With few exceptions, I don’t really like rougish games. The few that I do like I’d rather they be long form rpgs so that I can have a build long enough to enjoy it for a while.

That said, studios should be allowed to make the games they want to make. Forcing them to do art against their will results in bad art.

seventh sanctum saved my ass so many times