Being forced to use a particular OS, hardware or programming language? Working remotely? Certain company structure?
Abuse. Don’t take it. Know your worth.
I’m guess I’m lucky to never had encountered abuse. Have you seen it happen or experienced it yourself?
- abuse in the US workplace is (generally) not openly visible in ways you expect
- and yet, sexual abuse is still extremely prevalent in all industries
- US companies can impose a MASSIVE chilling effect just by having your healthcare tied to your employment
- mental abuse can be subtle (a form of psychological warfare) with something as simple as “we’re like a family here” or “you wouldn’t want to let down the team, would you?”
- the first episode of Zom 100 gave a really good example of how far the mental abuse can escalate – between overwork, lack of sleep, verbal abuse, bad diet, you no longer have time to step back and think, you become completely dependent on someone else telling you what to do, you no longer have the strength of will to even contemplate saying “No”
Return to the office. Forced to use Windows again
The stuff of nightmares.
At my previous company, they started forcing us to go back to the office, first once per week, then at least 8 days per month. I hated it but I could take it. Then, they said they had to replace our workstations with an SOE Laptop (some standard hardware and software configuration that is usually completely locked down, and you need to open a ticket to install anything). I hated this more, but I could still take it.
The last straw that made me quit was that my boss forced me to work on a project using a dead technology only because there was no one else that could do it. But I had absolutely zero experience with that technology. I was the only one who knew how to build a good user interface, so that’s why the task fell on my lap.
You took enough abuse. Glad you respected yourself in the end and quit.
Every engineering job I’ve left has been because of bad leadership.
The first, they hired a lead with no business being a lead. Not only was I much stronger from a technical perspective even though I had only been doing it professionally for about 3 years, but I was a better leader to the rest of the team as well. I had been sort of filling in in the interim before they were hired. They were let go not too long after I left.
The second, they hired an EM. I had been asked to work on setting up the code base for replatforming our web app and begin migrating pieces of it over. I was basically doing this on my own and working with timelines that I had given to leadership and providing weekly updates. This EM started micro-managing everything. This not only slowed my progress to a crawl, it was demotivating and stressful. They were let go not too long after I left.
My current position, I was moved to a new team during a company reorganization. The EM on this team is completely psychotic. Micro-managing to a degree that I’ve never seen before. They’re convinced that what we do Agile SCRUM, but we take in large projects each quarter, plan and scope them at the beginning, and then spend the rest of the quarter executing on them. When I or the team make suggestions that align better with agile, we’re gaslit and told our ideas “are waterfall not agile”.
We usually don’t take on projects that go longer than a quarter. The project that I’m on currently is bleeding into Q4. I warned about this from the very beginning, but the result was just more gaslighting, that I took too long on planning. I would have left, but the job market isn’t as friendly to hopping around as it was previously. Thankfully, I’ll be switching teams once this project is over.
Overall, all of these places had their problems beyond leadership. These are things that I can tolerate however, and with good leadership, can work towards improving. Once leadership turns to shit, it’s time to gtfo.
Using war metaphors
Requering blind loyalty
Requering acceptance of any task
Disregard for labor contracts
Dumb management
Using war metaphors
What do you mean?
Requering acceptance of any task
You would quit if something were against your morals e.g working on a project for Exxon mobile or something ?
War metaphors real examples:
Literally calling your employees your soldiers, calling starting positions as trenches, brainwashing your employees to a us versus the world mentality, ex-employees are ‘dead’ or ‘on a suicidal path’, etc.
Business is not war anyone who think it is has never saw what a single rifle bullet does to human flesh. Freaking psychos.
Task was being discussed, I raised valid concerns, they listened, agreed to the concerns and said ‘yeah we still want you to do it’. I say I won’t do this. They push harder. I left on the spot. Notice was on director desk the next day. I suspect management wanted me to take on a botched task so to have something negative over me. There may of may not have some level of nepotism there.
My previous job referred to ex employees as traitors or betrayers
Big yikes on the war metaphors. I’m also not a fan of alternative names for teams: squad, tribe, gang, clan, … makes me cringe.
I suspect management wanted me to take on a botched task so to have something negative over me.
Sounds like somebody with a god complex or way too deep in the army role-play “soldiers follow orders” bullshit.
There are so many reasons to leave a job. I can only say why I left jobs or rejected job offers in the past:
- Left a bullshit job. I was bored.
- Left a job because I didn’t like where I had to live.
- Left a job because the company was unraveling. It went under within a year.
- Let a job because of incompetent management and crappy code.
- Rejected an offer because the place felt like a morgue.
- Rejected an offer because the hiring manager’s boss acted like a entitled asshole.
- Rejected an offer because the work spaces for developers were even worse than open plan.
Rejected an offer because the work spaces for developers were even worse than open plan.
I am incredibly curious to learn more
Left two jobs in the last 3 years because they offered remote and then tried to claw it back. If I ever set foot in an office again it’ll be too soon.
I also tend to check in with myself on Sunday nights as I’m lying in bed. If I feel like I’m walking into a good situation the next morning, with good problems to solve and a decent chance of actually solving them, then I stick around. If I’m filled with dread awaiting the next off-hours disaster, I brush up my resume and flip the flag on LinkedIn.
I wish I were in the place you’re in right now. Good on you dude. Did the job switches also come with tasty salary bumps?
Absolutely delicious, thank you for asking. I’ve been very fortunate and had a lot of help.
Active remote surveillance, no one?
Toxic managers or coworkers
pay/benefits don’t trickle down
shit trickles downwhat I’ve learned is that 2 week notices only gives time for corporations to replace you with another unsuspecting victim so I’m just gonna run as soon as I can tell my work environment is toxic
these toxic workplaces can crumble for all I care
I usually check in with myself:
- Am I growing in my career?
- Am I happy with my current workplace: people, culture, flexibility?
- Am I valued to the company, i.e. my opinions are considered and regarded to some certain?
If one or two of these conditions failed, I would consider moving. After all, if I went to a workplace and I didn’t find any joy or recognition, the paycheck wouldn’t make me stay.
- In office - COVID taught us remote works best for me, there’s no going back
- Pay - don’t pay/offer enough or give a raise at least equivalent to inflation --> 👋
- Micro-management / bad management -👋
- Force windows or mac onto me - first I push back, but I will quit if push comes to shove
You’ve had a job where they let you use Linux on your machine? Every job I’ve had has been strictly windows
I could choose on all my jobs. I’m doing linux since so long, I don’t even wanna hear of windows.
@onlinepersona to show gratitude to software creators? To support them and to be sure the software will be maintained for years?
Being paid.
Being paid makes you quit? I’d hire you 😛
Awesome 😀 But as you don’t pay me I will only do what I like when I like to do so. So if your project is not FLOSS and useful for me or others I care about I will do nothing 🤷♂️ And if people need to pay (even through ads/datamining) to use it I’m out too.
FLOSS you say? What are your skillz bruv? Some project out there could need you :)
I will quit if I don’t feel happy anymore, which most likely because of people. If colleagues I like are all gone, I probably go somewhere else.
Sometimes it might be the salary which causes people to leave.
I read about the term “silent quitting”: quitting without any prior warning, just handing in the resignation without a chance to remedy the situation.
Sometimes it might be the salary which causes people to leave.
Definitely. Got the highest pay bumps when switching. Was only a reason to switch once for me though. Is salary the most important factor for you?
remember that “2 weeks notice” is a kindness you’re giving them, it’s not a requirement and companies will never show you that kindness when they fire you
I am okay with some discount on my salary if I am really happy with my colleagues. We go to work every day, it is important to be happy.
If most of my friends are gone, and the salary is not satifactory, I will definitely quit for higher pay!
Do you make friends at work?
Yes. I make friends in all my jobs. How about you?
I’ve… tried? But despite being software developers, our interests often don’t align. I’ve gotten along well with many, but they’ve always stayed aquaintances. Back when I was younger and willing to go out and have a beer after work I did make more friends.
I do agree, sometimes it is difficult to chat within work hours because everyone is busy. And when you get older, you have commitments in family, and other plans, etc, getting even more difficult to make friends.
I try to hang out with my colleagues, because i want to make friends and I still have time for that.
But anyways, I felt that you can be a good friend! Felt bad for your colleagues missing the chance to make a good friend. (Sorry if that sounds odd because of my poor English)
Jira
What would you use/accept instead?
Anything simple. I’m using Linear at my current job, which is fine. I’ve used Trello in the past, also fine. Best experience so far was using the GitLab issue tracker, but it as not a product team so YMMV.
oh Jira isn’t that bad
Maybe. I guess I hate the idea behind Jira more than Jira itself. I call it middle management driven Agile.
Also doesn’t help that Jira (and Confluence) were fucking slow for a long while. Nobody wants to use slow software as an integral part of the dev chain.
